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Old 01-29-2021, 03:09 PM
 
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Getting off topic here folks. Let's assume you would be driving in both cities.
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Old 01-29-2021, 03:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Easy View Post
As for time through downtown, I've already been told that the reason that Link isn't any faster on average than other light rail systems is that it takes them longer to go through downtown due to close station distancing. So they both have that same issue. Outside of downtown is Link any faster? I tend to doubt it.
Grade separation for light rail in urban areas with close spacing is particularly irrelevant. Time saving is minimal.

I'm skeptical that LINK would be substantially faster outside downtown than the SD trolley. SD trolley also has significant grade separation (all of Mission Valley for instance). Plus, I would also assume SD would continue to advance grade separations this decade. These projects have been in the fiscally-constrained plan.
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Old 01-29-2021, 03:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by littletraveller View Post
Getting off topic here folks. Let's assume you would be driving in both cities.
Haha, sorry...clearly some train/transit folks geeking out. Good discussions though.
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Old 01-29-2021, 03:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by newgensandiego View Post
Grade separation for light rail in urban areas with close spacing is particularly irrelevant. Time saving is minimal.
That's not accurate - grade-separation improves reliability dramatically and trains can go at much faster speeds. Also, in terms of stop spacing, Link is more spread out than the Trolley system, but station placement tends to be in denser urban neighborhoods.
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Old 01-29-2021, 08:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Vincent_Adultman View Post
That's not accurate - grade-separation improves reliability dramatically and trains can go at much faster speeds. Also, in terms of stop spacing, Link is more spread out than the Trolley system, but station placement tends to be in denser urban neighborhoods.
What exactly are you comparing it to?

"Much faster speeds" is just not correct. We're talking 30mph vs. 20 mph top speed for maybe 1-2 minutes in an urban area with frequent stops. LRT does not have the propulsion system to create the time savings & speeds that you are imagining when comparing grade separated and at-grade.

The difference in travel time is a matter of seconds. I agree with your point about reliability, but otherwise the need for LRT grade separation in a downtown area is extremely exaggerated. Heavy rail definitely, but LRT has less benefit due to the limits of the technology itself.
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Old 01-29-2021, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newgensandiego View Post
What exactly are you comparing it to?

"Much faster speeds" is just not correct. We're talking 30mph vs. 20 mph top speed for maybe 1-2 minutes in an urban area with frequent stops. LRT does not have the propulsion system to create the time savings & speeds that you are imagining when comparing grade separated and at-grade.

The difference in travel time is a matter of seconds. I agree with your point about reliability, but otherwise the need for LRT grade separation in a downtown area is extremely exaggerated. Heavy rail definitely, but LRT has less benefit due to the limits of the technology itself.
Light rail in LA is pretty normal and has top speeds of 55 mph on its own ROW and 65 mph when completely grade separated. It frequently reaches top speed between stations. I don't think that reaching fast speeds between stations is related to any propulsion issues.
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Old 01-29-2021, 09:31 PM
 
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Link has several miles of at-grade rail with street crossings, and SD's trolley has significant area of grade separation. So a six-MPH difference on average seems significant. This is consistent with grade-separated areas being much faster.

2Easy, the other two were in my previous post: 1. No crossings means no stops for crossings. 2. GS means trains can be longer than city blocks (Link trains are twice the length SD's block widths would allow).
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Old 01-29-2021, 11:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 2Easy View Post
Light rail in LA is pretty normal and has top speeds of 55 mph on its own ROW and 65 mph when completely grade separated. It frequently reaches top speed between stations.
You think an LRT vehicle is hitting 65MPH in an urban area where stations are 5 blocks apart?

Also, even if an LRT vehicle hit 65mph between stations that are further apart (say 1-mile, which is a good average across an LRT system), it's for a very short period. But also, I'm not even sure that's relevant anyways because like you mentioned, at-grade systems in separate ROW achieve high speeds too. Either way, I was focused on urban areas with frequent stops.

Quote:
I don't think that reaching fast speeds between stations is related to any propulsion issues.
It absolutely is when the stations are placed close to each other. If LRT vehicles can't reach fast speeds quick enough between short distances, then the amount of time at higher speeds (and therefore time savings) is negligible between a grade separated option and an at-grade option w/ separate ROW and transit signal priority.

Also, let's remember that travel speeds are also dependent on the contours of the track. Like the SD trolley green line and extension to UTC, LINK extensions might be grade separated, but the routes also have a lot of curvature (e.g. Eastlink)

I wouldn't be surprised if travel times/speeds in the grade-separate portion of the future Blue Line in UTC/UCSD is actually slower than the at-grade portion in Chula Vista/San Ysidro. Just another thing to consider before making blanket statements (not directed at you, just a general comment)
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Old 01-30-2021, 12:11 AM
 
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Link hits 55 or so I'd guess. It goes along a freeway and keeps up. That's in a suburban segment of a couple miles maybe. Stations are really only close in the CBD. Several are distant enough that speed matters a lot.

"Separate ROW / signal priority" can be fairly slow too. Link's median-running segment is limited to the surrounding speed limit...25 mph iirc. It also occasionally stops at intersections despite signal priority.
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Old 01-30-2021, 09:05 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
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Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
We have been here 27 years, paid $190k, and the taxes have gone up every year, not much until recently, since 2016 it's gone up $1,000/year with 10-14% increases in value and new local bond issues.
Gotcha. I assumed when you said your property tax is $8K a year on a $900K house that was the purchase price, and not a house you paid $190K for years ago? I guess that’s a trade off you have to accept for having no state income tax? This also helps to point out that property taxes aren’t cheaper in Washington. Having an annual $1K increase the last 4-5 still has to be tough though?
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