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I said they are all tied (Philadelphia, San Fran and Boston).. in 4th place. They all have pros and cons... they all have about the same ridership overall and the same capital budgets... they are the most alike of systems in the nation in terms of size and moving power...
With San Fran systems being newer...
It really is like looking at wrinkles in a shirt to determine the differences between those 3 systems..
I said they are all tied (Philadelphia, San Fran and Boston).. in 4th place. They all have pros and cons... they all have about the same ridership overall and the same capital budgets... they are the most alike of systems in the nation in terms of size and moving power...
With San Fran systems being newer...
It really is like looking at wrinkles in a shirt to determine the differences between those 3 systems..
I reread the tie. I swear there was a 5 next to bos hut still SF is a good mark below both PHL and BOS.
I'm pretty sure that LA has way exceeded all rail estimates/projections, although rail started declining pretty significantly over the last 2-3 years before covid. Most cities were seeing similar though, even NYC and DC.
Keep in mind though that many of LA's "projections" for the rail that currently exists were made at a time when the federal formula favored "new" transit riders. Getting people off of a bus and onto a train wasn't as favored and my opinion is that Metro models favored new riders and underestimated existing riders moving over.
Keep in mind though that many of LA's "projections" for the rail that currently exists were made at a time when the federal formula favored "new" transit riders. Getting people off of a bus and onto a train wasn't as favored and my opinion is that Metro models favored new riders and underestimated existing riders moving over.
Thanks for mentioning this. A small, but important distinction. Overall, the same conclusion: there is definitely demand for transit in LA!
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rowhomecity
You really need to look at the total numbers which is at the bottom of the list.
San Diego is making some impressive strides.
It still lags behind LA and San Fran and I would say is on par with Denver.
The top transit systems in the nation:
Class A
1) NYC
2) Chicago
3) DC
Class A-/B+
All tied...
4) Philadelphia
4) San Fran
4) Boston
Class C
6) Los Angeles
7) Atlanta
8) Denver
9) Baltimore
Class C-
10) Pittsburgh
11) Portland
12) Dallas
Well the point being made originally was about LA was for the individual system, and that it would rank #2 by 2040. That's just out of the realm of possibility completely, especially for car oriented LA.
Even that list is a bit off regarding heavy rail:
US heavy rail rapid transit systems by ridership 2019, avg weekday ridership:
New York City Subway- 9,117,400
Washington DC Metro (WMATA)- 816,700
Chicago L- 695,300
MBTA subway ("The T")- 475,300
Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART)- 421,100
SEPTA- (Broad Street, Market–Frankford, and Norristown High Speed Lines)- 329,200
PATH-NJ- 306,700
MARTA rail-175,338 Metro Rail Los Angeles Heavy rail only (B and D Lines)- 130,900
Miami Metrorail- 62,600
You specifically referred to regions, so why show the completely useless city comparison?
Quote:
By metro area:
MSAs by Percentage of Workers Using Public Transportation, 2019
31.6% New York-Newark-Jersey City
18.9% San Francisco-Oakland-Berkeley
13.3% Boston-Cambridge-Newton
13.0% Washington-Arlington-Alexandria
12.3% Chicago-Naperville-Elgin
I think we just have different datasets, but seeing that this one is more recent I defer to yours. Either way, I think DC is still tied with Chicago & Boston. It feels much more auto-centric as well. https://www.census.gov/content/dam/C...acs/acs-48.pdf
Quote:
I didn't say DC rivals NY in transit. I said those two are the most transit oriented. Although Boston and SF are right there, as is Chicago, and by percentage compare.
And I disagree with that assertion. At best, it's a tie with Chicago.
Quote:
Los Angeles is not in the picture, and shown no signs becoming the #2 transit city in America by 2040. I have no idea why that assertion would be made.
Do you mean light rail or heavy? LA ain't passing DC Metro in our lifetimes. There's still expansions and all kinds of plans taking place in DC that will keep it ahead of LA. You can hope to crack the top 4 maybe, and with the expansions coming LA it can hope for top three. But NYC and DC are probably the most transit oriented metro areas in the country overall. LA may go up in tier, but still be after those two, and probably after Chicago as well if they begin to make more rail expansions there.
First let me express my condolences that you don't expect to be living next decade.
Second, I meant that LA's combined light/heavy rail will be passing DC in both ridership and usefulness within the next 10-12 years. IMO it will be easier to get around LA by rail than it is to get around DC by rail and LA will have more riders overall even though much of the system will be light rail.
I don't see LA catching DC in just heavy rail though. Realistically, the planned Sepulveda Pass line to LAX and the current purple line extension to one day maybe Santa Monica, plus one station on the other end will be all of the heavy rail that LA will build in the next 20 years. LA will have higher ridership per mile, but DC will have many more miles.
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