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Nightlife is kind of synonymous with douchebag Chad culture and bro fights over manhood and girls, so I don’t associate that with sophistication, cosmopolitanism or cool.
I would say LA to answer the title question. LA is the “it” city of the art world right now along with Berlin. More artists and understanding of contemporary art and a more important blue chip gallery scene, more museums across the whole spectrum including more vital post-war art museums, and a more design/creative/fashion forward populace. Also the LA restaurant scene seems more influential and more immigrant driven.
I don't know about that. I agree that the LA restaurant scene may be more immigrant driven, but I'm not sure about influential. I feel like Chicago has one of the top restaurant scenes. Restaurants like Alinea, is a must go for international visitors. Even Girl and the Goat and many other similar restaurants are draws for tourism. That's before you even get to the steakhouses. Now in terms of "food," LA may be better. When I've been to LA, I've experienced some of the best food trucks and local food spots than any other city. But at least for me personally, LA's "restaurants" don't seem as influential to me.
As far as nightlife, it kind of depends. The thing I like about Chicago (at least pre-pandemic times), is that there is a really nice classy nightlife scene in the downtown core (particularly River North), where people get dressed up. You've got a huge restaurant scene in the West Loop and Gold Coast. But then in the neighborhoods, you've got lots of casual local bars, where people know each other and it's really chill. Of course some of those can be bro-heavy, but definitely not all. I really like the variety of nightlife. And in the summer it's even better. Looking forward to the post-pandemic days when I can go back out and enjoy that...
I don't know about that. I agree that the LA restaurant scene may be more immigrant driven, but I'm not sure about influential. I feel like Chicago has one of the top restaurant scenes. Restaurants like Alinea, is a must go for international visitors. Even Girl and the Goat and many other similar restaurants are draws for tourism. That's before you even get to the steakhouses. Now in terms of "food," LA may be better. When I've been to LA, I've experienced some of the best food trucks and local food spots than any other city. But at least for me personally, LA's "restaurants" don't seem as influential to me.
Chicago’s food scene was influential between 2000-2010 with Alinea, when Thomas Keller and New American was popularized and America still saw Italian and French as being the pinnacle of good food. 2010 belonged mostly to LA because it was really the city that pushed forward immigrant cuisine as being on the same level with European dining, as well as the current elevation of immigrant cuisines taking on chef-driven formats. At this period, Jonathan Gold was the most influential food critic. As well as the vegetable-forward California cuisine that’s becoming mainstream today. For instance, the popularity of Korean and Alta Mexican cuisines nationally really started with LA and the chefs there. Not to mention the popularization of sushi.
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Originally Posted by ADCS
Think this one really depends on how much you value pop culture. LA has more glam but Chicago has way more substance.
LA is an everything city, even if pop culture is synonymous with Hollywood. I find Chicago tends not to have the creative industries, nor the scope of LA’s diversity that allow it to fully delve into important conversations about culture and art that are currently happening.
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European and Latin cuisine is still considered the pinnacle of good food with restaurants from such areas dominating the World’s Best 50 restaurants (including 8 of the top 10 and 16 of the top 20):
A little more diversified within the US, but European and Latin are far from past their prime….LA and Chicago are both great restaurant cities; not sure I give the edge to one. Taste of Chicago, the world’s largest food festival, has spawned similar copycat events in a number of cities across the country. LA is a bigger food truck city but I do not equate that with sophisticated dining.
As for nightlife, Chicago has a more sophisticated scene including great jazz and blues clubs along with more dress code enforcement (including less $500/hour hooker CFM outfits amongst women) which minimizes the douchebaggery and/or grunge scene more prevalent on the West Coast. The celebrity status, see and be seen, fad diets, plastic surgery etc etc can add to pop culture in LA’s favor but also douchebaggery and Chad wannabes that is less present in more grounded Chicago.
The architecture stands out more in Chicago and museums are comparable (maybe a very slight edge to Chicago). Both are great for high end shopping with LA having an edge though the average Chicagoan is better “put together” from a style/less casual standpoint in terms of every day dress—which plays into sophistication. LA enjoys a significant climate and terrain advantage (though that doesn’t equate to sophistication), with Chicago offering the big city amenities in a more compact setting (second only to NYC) with more bang for the buck. If not for December 1 - mid March I could easily enjoy living there. Chicago comes across as more urban and, therefore, sophisticated to me.
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Originally Posted by dtran103
Chicago’s food scene was influential between 2000-2010 with Alinea, when Thomas Keller and New American was popularized and America still saw Italian and French as being the pinnacle of good food. 2010 belonged mostly to LA because it was really the city that pushed forward immigrant cuisine as being on the same level with European dining, as well as the current elevation of immigrant cuisines taking on chef-driven formats. At this period, Jonathan Gold was the most influential food critic. As well as the vegetable-forward California cuisine that’s becoming mainstream today. For instance, the popularity of Korean and Alta Mexican cuisines nationally really started with LA and the chefs there. Not to mention the popularization of sushi.
LA is an everything city, even if pop culture is synonymous with Hollywood. I find Chicago tends not to have the creative industries, nor the scope of LA’s diversity that allow it to fully delve into important conversations about culture and art that are currently happening.
Last edited by elchevere; 01-03-2022 at 08:20 AM..
European and Latin cuisine is still considered the pinnacle of good food with restaurants from such areas dominating the World’s Best 50 restaurants (including 8 of the top 10 and 16 of the top 20):
A little more diversified within the US, but European and Latin are far from past their prime….LA and Chicago are both great restaurant cities; not sure I give the edge to one. Taste of Chicago, the world’s largest food festival, has spawned similar copycat events in a number of cities across the country. LA is a bigger food truck city but I do not equate that with sophisticated dining.
Sophistication and cosmopolitanism isn’t what Michelin tells you or the old Pellegrino list, which is wannabe Michelin except susceptible to hype and trend and what’s in and whats out (molecular gastromy one year and out the next). Started by a tire company and bottle water promotion, btw. Those are remnants of a type of world view that’s been held as long as the belief of European superiority has been around. Sophisticated diners know how to appreciate a french table but they also appreciate the qualities that make a perfect bowl of pho. The problem with Worlds50Best is to take it literally. They rank ingredient-driven cuisine ciphered through specifically French understanding of what food is. In other words french table cloth, wine lists, and kaiseki style dining, male-dominated kitchen. Almost every single one. Fine dining is a genre of cuisine, not the pinnacle of cuisine. “Ethnic” food can be part of the club if the chef interprets it through french technique. Cuisine is culture more than anything else. To characterize cosmopolitanism as dining at a French restaurant and drinking Bourdeaux is such a cliche that it actually reveals itself as lacking it (understand of different cultures) and sophistication. Because it shows an ignorance of other cultures and how its revealed through food. That’s actually the opposite of true cosmopolitanism. That’s the conversation that was championed by Jonathan Gold and Anthony Bourdain that made LA’s food scene so influential the past 10 years to now. It has the top notch french tables, the italian tables and pretty much everything else all on equal footing.
I love Chicago but it does not strike me as cool at all. I don't know exactly what it is, but even though it's a massive hyper-urban city I nonetheless get strong Midwestern, All-American vibes. For me it wouldn't rate in the top 10 US cities in terms of "cool", and LA (which is probably #2 in cool after NYC) wins this going away.
LA but depends on your definition of sophisticated.
Most posters would agree that NYC, London and Paris are three of the most sophisticated cities in the world. Why not take the qualities that make those cities "sophisticated" and see how Chicago and LA stack up on those qualities?
In my opinion, I don’t think there’s anywhere in the country that’s as cool as 18th St. between Halsted and Western. Chicago Avenue between Western and the Kennedy is also extremely cool, and probably more sophisticated (or maybe just “nicer,” to be honest). I’m unsure if the lack of coolness in other areas takes away from that. For instance, the cultural wasteland of Hot Dog Town Canaryville on the South Side is a place I find totally lame. I could go on, but I don’t want to disparage the area too much. But do places like that really matter if you just don’t go to them?
But no one addressed the prevalence of car culture in LA. If someone’s commonly viewed as a nobody if they don’t own a car, I don’t think that’s cool. Is it like that still or have attitudes changed? Anyway, Chicago deserves points for the CTA. The L is a unique and historical system
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