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Where did you get that idea from? I am asking him whether "Brooklyn vibes" means upper middle-class, college-educated people since these are the people moving from Brooklyn to Philadelphia after all.
Perhaps I misunderstood, but it seemed like you were making a critique of Philadelphians' apparent perception of Brooklynites (i.e., affluent Hipsters), while it appeared that you were also reinforcing that stereotype.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Thank you so much, Duderino, for teaching me so much about the place I have called home for a decade plus, and also for teaching me so much about the city I grew up in.
Aren't you from Montgomery County, btw?
It wasn't meant as a slight to your personal knowledge, I promise. Just reiterating a point. Mea culpa.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Could you also teach me about being Black in America?
Perhaps I misunderstood, but it seemed like you were making a critique of Philadelphians' apparent perception of Brooklyn (i.e., affluent Hipsters), while it appeared that you were also reinforcing that stereotype.
I was asking about his perception of Brooklyn...unless he can speak for all 1.6 million Philadelphians.
What does "Brooklyn vibes" mean? He hasn't explained that yet. And I don't understand why Philly would give off "Brooklyn vibes" but not "Bronx vibes" considering that all three share some similarities (i.e., White ethnic influence, rich history, etc.). The only difference I can see is that Brooklyn has trendy areas while the Bronx does not for the most part.
Sure, so then why would Manhattan be different in kind from other cities as opposed to being different in degree?
No other US core city save San Francisco has the level and amount of concentrated wealth and high-income households in it as the Borough of Manhattan. Yes, there are poor people in both, but these places (Boston's joining them as well) are basically places where only the really rich and really poor can afford to live (the poor thanks to subsidies, or they just live on the street), while the middle has been squeezed out of them. That certainly doesn't describe Brooklyn, at least not yet.
Now, I know that in Manhattan's northern reaches, you can still find neighborhoods I would consider middle-class, like Washington Heights or Inwood. But those make up an increasingly smaller portion of Manhattan's neighborhood mix. Keep in mind that a number of people who call themselves "middle class" have incomes in the Ten Percent, and even more are in the top 20 percent of the income distribution — they're really at the bottom of the upper class.
As of 2020, the upper limit of the fourth income quintile in the US (80 percent of the population earns less than this each year) was $112,262. Anyone living in a household whose income is above that figure is in the top 20 percent. The median household income in New York County (=Manhattan) is not far from that: $93,651. By contrast, that figure for Kings County (Brooklyn) is $66,937, higher than the $$49,127 for the City of Philadelphia (=Philadelphia County) but below that for the Philadelphia MSA as a whole ($74,533). (Actually, San Francisco surpasses Manhattan on this metric; its MHI is in the top quintile: $123,859.)
No other US core city save San Francisco has the level and amount of concentrated wealth and high-income households in it as the Borough of Manhattan. Yes, there are poor people in both, but these places (Boston's joining them as well) are basically places where only the really rich and really poor can afford to live (the poor thanks to subsidies, or they just live on the street), while the middle has been squeezed out of them. That certainly doesn't describe Brooklyn, at least not yet.
Now, I know that in Manhattan's northern reaches, you can still find neighborhoods I would consider middle-class, like Washington Heights or Inwood. But those make up an increasingly smaller portion of Manhattan's neighborhood mix. Keep in mind that a number of people who call themselves "middle class" have incomes in the Ten Percent, and even more are in the top 20 percent of the income distribution — they're really at the bottom of the upper class.
As of 2020, the upper limit of the fourth income quintile in the US (80 percent of the population earns less than this each year) was $112,262. Anyone living in a household whose income is above that figure is in the top 20 percent.
Hold up. A moment ago, we were talking about the difference between "difference in degree" and "difference in kind," and you mentioned urban design and pedestrian traffic. Now it seems you're doing an 18Montclair and pivoting to wealth. That's not what we were talking about. Why are you trying to change the subject?
And it seems by your own admission here that Manhattan wouldn't be "different in kind" from every other U.S. city anyway since San Francisco also has a bunch of concentrated wealth.
And by "vibes," you mean upper middle class, college-educated people walking to yoga and brunch?
Nope.
Closer to the workaday ethnic attitude found in places like Bensonhurst there or Bridesburg here. But with that yuppie overlay on top of it, which the Bronx doesn't have yet.
Closer to the workaday ethnic attitude found in places like Bensonhurst there or Bridesburg here. But with that yuppie overlay on top of it, which the Bronx doesn't have yet.
Then I was exactly right then.
Though I will say that the area around Yankee Stadium is changing pretty rapidly. And you also get yuppie spillover from Fordham to Arthur Avenue (Little Italy) and surrounding areas.
Hold up. A moment ago, we were talking about the difference between "difference in degree" and "difference in kind," and you mentioned urban design and pedestrian traffic. Now it seems you're doing an 18Montclair and pivoting to wealth. That's not what we were talking about. Why are you trying to change the subject?
And it seems by your own admission here that Manhattan wouldn't be "different in kind" from every other U.S. city anyway since San Francisco also has a bunch of concentrated wealth.
You asked what I would consider a difference of kind as opposed to degree. Really rich places do tend to be different in kind from others — consider Beverly Hills, for instance, or much of the northern part (above the railroad) of the Main Line here. (Among my Phillymag colleagues, I'm known for using "Gladwyne"* as a shorthand term for "over-the-top, more-money-than-taste excess").
Merely affluent places aren't quite that different from the places below them.
And since Manhattan is the only large urban place in the country with incomes even in San Francisco's neighborhood, then yes, it belongs with it rather than with, say, Chicago ($75,379 in 2019) or Boston ($79,018 in that same year).
*Gladwyne, the only Main Line community without a station on the rail line that gave the area its name, has the highest median household income of any community in the Greater Philadelphia region (MHI for its ZIP code, 19035: $250,001). Now, having provided that figure, you might say that neither Manhattan nor San Francisco are in its league, but remember, I said urban, which Gladwyne definitely is not — it's very-low-density suburban.
The Bronx probably has the best Little Italy in America. As you can imagine, there's also a strong Latino influence and a lot of yuppies and hipsters around as well. And unlike the "Italian" areas of Philly, you actually have a lot more recent Italian immigrants who speak the language.
Though I will say that the area around Yankee Stadium is changing pretty rapidly. And you also get yuppie spillover from Fordham to Arthur Avenue (Little Italy) and surrounding areas.
you were half right. Your had said that the yuppie stuff was the sole basis for my assessment, when the answer was, It's a combination of the two.
There are yuppie places that lack that workaday-ethnic ethos as a leavening force. Washington, DC, as a whole, for instance.
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