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IMO Philadelphia has the best value of the three. Besides, Philadelphia is close enough to NYC that you can still access it for certain amenities that it lacks, such as more Broadway plays, certain ethnic food, festivals, unique shopping, quirky museums (though Philadelphia has a good collection itself), or even when a Philly team plays up there, with an easy train ride. You're even closer to Washington, DC and Baltimore as well as smaller places like Lancaster, the south Jersey shore, and the Delaware/Maryland beaches, most of which are accessible by transit. Chicago's still the best that the Midwest has to offer, but it seems like the gap between its two cities above it (LA and NYC) is gradually getting wider, and is moving more into the San Francisco/DC/Houston/Dallas/Atlanta tier. Flying is the best option, but with the rising airfares, you're not likely to make too many quick trips, but rather take vacations several times a year for the average citizen. Still, NYC has the biggest supply of jobs, so I can see the appeal there.
A normal middle class person would conceivably send their kid to NYC Public schools. They would not do so in Philly or Chicago. So the difference in rent/mortgage would be be at least partially gobbled by Tuition.
So
Except the middle class has all-but-collapsed in NYC like few other cities.
And sorry, but I'm not buying that NYC public schools are substantially better than those in Philly and Chicago, writ large.
It always comes down to individual schools. It's silly to compare such large urban districts with so much variability.
It's really hard to believe that NYC provides 2.5X of what Chicago does as indicated by the cost disparity, mass transit or otherwise.
Lake Michigan looks to be much more integrated into the Chicago package than the Atlantic is with NYC, its hard to even say that NYC has much of an advantage with regards to cultural institutions, and it seems Chicago may even hold a slight edge with its food scene.
For car free life, I would pick a Chicago inner ring suburb, living in a dwelling at least 2X the size of anything I've ever had in CA.
That's because NYC sits between the Hudson and East Rivers with NY Harbor at its base you dolt. Did you forget about how integrated those are into the city's fabric? Parts of Queens and Brooklyn sit on the Atlantic but that's still a poor comparison to Chicago's waterfront as you should base Chicago's against Manhattan and not further outlying boroughs. The more apt comparison when you're making a statement like yours would have been that NYC doesn't seem as integrated into its natural waterfront as Chicago's does. I highly disagree with this assertion as NY has one of the largest natural harbors in the world and is frequently named the best natural harbor in the world. Add to that how stunning the Hudson River waterfront is and the continual development of that with such projects as Hudson Yards, Little Island and all of the redeveloped piers/parks. Furthermore NYC is finally leveraging its massive waterfront over the last 10-15 years after decades of extreme neglect and corruption. In the next 20 years it will be drastically different than how it looks today and way more expansive than Chicago's.
I love Chicago and it's the most NY like city in the US in terms of built environment. I'm not ripping it at all as it has its own gems and there's things I prefer about it over NY. That said, it is NOT NYC. Stop trying to dumb the equation down for your purposes. For someone from laid back Cali, yeah, a cute, inner ring suburb in Chicago is probably more your speed than the hustle/bustle of the Apple. You'd probably complain about not having a car in the world's greatest city lol. Stick to Cali car culture dude.
Except the middle class has all-but-collapsed in NYC like few other cities.
And sorry, but I'm not buying that NYC public schools are substantially better than those in Philly and Chicago, writ large.
It always comes down to individual schools. It's silly to compare such large urban districts with so much variability.
I don't think it's accurate to say that NYC's middle class has collapsed as there are still plenty of people with middle class occupations that live within the city. It's certainly been getting tougher though especially for anyone who rents.
IMO Philadelphia has the best value of the three. Besides, Philadelphia is close enough to NYC that you can still access it for certain amenities that it lacks, such as more Broadway plays, certain ethnic food, festivals, unique shopping, quirky museums (though Philadelphia has a good collection itself), or even when a Philly team plays up there, with an easy train ride. You're even closer to Washington, DC and Baltimore as well as smaller places like Lancaster, the south Jersey shore, and the Delaware/Maryland beaches, most of which are accessible by transit. Chicago's still the best that the Midwest has to offer, but it seems like the gap between its two cities above it (LA and NYC) is gradually getting wider, and is moving more into the San Francisco/DC/Houston/Dallas/Atlanta tier. Flying is the best option, but with the rising airfares, you're not likely to make too many quick trips, but rather take vacations several times a year for the average citizen. Still, NYC has the biggest supply of jobs, so I can see the appeal there.
Yea, Philadelphia is nicely located. I'll add though that Chicago is a pretty large passenger rail hub still to this day and there's been iterative improvements in recent years in regards to on time performance and speed.
I wonder whether those of you talking about all those cars on Manhattan Island have noticed how many of them are bright yellow. During the day when I've been there, at least half the cars cruising down the avenues of Manhattan Island are taxis — and a good number of those that aren't either have "livery" license plates (non-medallion hacks) or are driven by people working for "ridesharing" companies. (New York has more than two of these; one was formed by ridesharing drivers who wanted to control their own terms and conditions of work.)
Yes, there are Manhattanites who own cars; many of the larger "postwar" (the war in question being WW2; Manhattanites often willingly pay a premium to live in "prewar" buildings) apartment buildings on the island have parking garages under them. But I think I can say with some confidence that maybe 25 percent of those buildings' residents TOPS own cars. Again, someone pointed out that while there may be 2.2 million cars registered to NYC residents, there are 7.5 million of those residents. Do the math: I suspect you will find that per capita car ownership in NYC is lower than in any other US city.
And a good portion of the cars on Manhattan streets not in those categories above drove in via one of the river crossings from New Jersey, Long Island or the NYS mainland. New York is still the only US city where more than 50 percent of the residents do not drive to work, and that transit system is one big reason why they do not.
IMO Philadelphia has the best value of the three. Besides, Philadelphia is close enough to NYC that you can still access it for certain amenities that it lacks, such as more Broadway plays, certain ethnic food, festivals, unique shopping, quirky museums (though Philadelphia has a good collection itself), or even when a Philly team plays up there, with an easy train ride. You're even closer to Washington, DC and Baltimore as well as smaller places like Lancaster, the south Jersey shore, and the Delaware/Maryland beaches, most of which are accessible by transit. Chicago's still the best that the Midwest has to offer, but it seems like the gap between its two cities above it (LA and NYC) is gradually getting wider, and is moving more into the San Francisco/DC/Houston/Dallas/Atlanta tier. Flying is the best option, but with the rising airfares, you're not likely to make too many quick trips, but rather take vacations several times a year for the average citizen. Still, NYC has the biggest supply of jobs, so I can see the appeal there.
Philly is centrally located within the Northeast Corridor, but it's a little more than 90 miles from New York but 120 from Baltimore and 150 from Washington, DC.
I don't think it's accurate to say that NYC's middle class has collapsed as there are still plenty of people with middle class occupations that live within the city. It's certainly been getting tougher though especially for anyone who rents.
Using "collapse" was perhaps a bit hyperbolic, but it's clear that NYC's middle-income earners are much more limited in their living options compared to Philadelphia and Chicago. The recent dynamics of the housing market have only compounded the issue.
I wonder whether those of you talking about all those cars on Manhattan Island have noticed how many of them are bright yellow. During the day when I've been there, at least half the cars cruising down the avenues of Manhattan Island are taxis — and a good number of those that aren't either have "livery" license plates (non-medallion hacks) or are driven by people working for "ridesharing" companies. (New York has more than two of these; one was formed by ridesharing drivers who wanted to control their own terms and conditions of work.)
Yes, there are Manhattanites who own cars; many of the larger "postwar" (the war in question being WW2; Manhattanites often willingly pay a premium to live in "prewar" buildings) apartment buildings on the island have parking garages under them. But I think I can say with some confidence that maybe 25 percent of those buildings' residents TOPS own cars. Again, someone pointed out that while there may be 2.2 million cars registered to NYC residents, there are 7.5 million of those residents. Do the math: I suspect you will find that per capita car ownership in NYC is lower than in any other US city.
And a good portion of the cars on Manhattan streets not in those categories above drove in via one of the river crossings from New Jersey, Long Island or the NYS mainland. New York is still the only US city where more than 50 percent of the residents do not drive to work, and that transit system is one big reason why they do not.
8.8 million residents these days.
Car ownership is pretty uneven. Generally, Eastern Queens and Staten Island have a far large proportion of people with vehicles. Much of the rest of the city and not just Manhattan often uses other modes of transportation aside from personal cars. Rideshare and carshare services to some degree have made this a lot easier.
What I'm seeing a large bump in these days are bikes and e-bikes and other electric one to four wheeled
"alternative mobility" devices. It's pretty fun to see the large variety.
I wonder whether those of you talking about all those cars on Manhattan Island have noticed how many of them are bright yellow. During the day when I've been there, at least half the cars cruising down the avenues of Manhattan Island are taxis — and a good number of those that aren't either have "livery" license plates (non-medallion hacks) or are driven by people working for "ridesharing" companies. (New York has more than two of these; one was formed by ridesharing drivers who wanted to control their own terms and conditions of work.)
Yes, there are Manhattanites who own cars; many of the larger "postwar" (the war in question being WW2; Manhattanites often willingly pay a premium to live in "prewar" buildings) apartment buildings on the island have parking garages under them. But I think I can say with some confidence that maybe 25 percent of those buildings' residents TOPS own cars. Again, someone pointed out that while there may be 2.2 million cars registered to NYC residents, there are 7.5 million of those residents. Do the math: I suspect you will find that per capita car ownership in NYC is lower than in any other US city.
And a good portion of the cars on Manhattan streets not in those categories above drove in via one of the river crossings from New Jersey, Long Island or the NYS mainland. New York is still the only US city where more than 50 percent of the residents do not drive to work, and that transit system is one big reason why they do not.
I cannot for the life of me imagine someone living in Manhattan willingly driving around the place. Why? It would be more hassle to drive out of the parking garage, navigate through the crowded streets, and then try to find parking, than to just walk and/or use the subway to get around.
And like I said in an earlier post, even coming from as far out as New Brunswick, it would have made little to no sense for me to drive myself into Manhattan. This was further confirmed by family members who also said that the NJ transit is how people typically get into town.
Here is an accurate picture of car ownership in NYC:
Even in the other boroughs, under half of households own a car in the Bronx and in Brooklyn, and while Queens has a 62% ownership, only 38% drive to work.
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