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The census designates San Jose as a unique area because the census has specific definitions for Metropolitan Statistical Areas, which is what I assume you're referring to when you say unique metro area. The MSA designation uses counties as the base unit and commuting thresholds to the core county for those agglomerations. There's actually a county on the peninsula between San Francisco (itself a county) and Santa Clara County (where San Jose is) and on the other side (East Bay). That technical MSA definition though doesn't stop it from being a single metropolitan area which it very obviously is. That's been the case for a very long time.
It's not obvious, and this logic sounds a lot like the "well Riverside is basically a suburb of Los Angeles" conventional wisdom you see pretty often on here. Basically the "its all one metro area because I say it is" logic.
It's not obvious, and this logic sounds a lot like the "well Riverside is basically a suburb of Los Angeles" conventional wisdom you see pretty often on here. Basically the "its all one metro area because I say it is" logic.
You realize that Palo Alto is in the "San Francisco" MSA and Mountain View is in the "San Jose" MSA? Freemont is in the "San Francisco" MSA, but Milpitas is in the "San Jose" MSA? You really think this is a relevant distinction?
What's really comical is taking a metro with its own fully realized light rail system and designating as a "suburb" of somewhere else just to knock it out of competition in order to prop up the Austin's of the world.
There's a reason the census designates San Jose as a unique metro area.
Not only is it farther from San Francisco than D.C. is from Baltimore, its located in a distinctly separate region (the Santa Clara Valley), has its own major newspaper, its own NHL franchise, major airport, etc.
We can't just re-draw the map of the United States to help out Austin in this thread.
The Bay Area has what, five different rail systems? It's one massive interconnected region that contains the HQs for many of the largest companies in the world. I don't think "San Jose" is a suburb, I think it's the second or third city in a multi-polar region. However I do think that the vast majority of the "San Jose MSA" are independent suburbs that aren't particularly oriented around San Jose as opposed to San Francisco, and thus naming them in one MSA or the other based on county boundaries is not useful.
It's not obvious, and this logic sounds a lot like the "well Riverside is basically a suburb of Los Angeles" conventional wisdom you see pretty often on here. Basically the "its all one metro area because I say it is" logic.
No, that's not quite the same, though San Bernardino and Riverside are part of the Los Angeles metropolitan area even if they aren't part of the Metropolitan Statistical Area. For Southern California, a lot of those counties are very large and so geographic landforms actually make a pretty large impact. Even though Riverside proper and San Bernardino proper are part of contiguous dense development from Los Angeles Basin to the San Gabriel Valley to the Inland Empire, but there are communities that are disconnected from that urbanization east of the San Bernardino and San Jacinto mountains and from each other. The same with those north of the San Gabriel Mountains.
That's in effect for the Bay Area as well with the geography playing a large part in urbanization patterns, but there's also a much larger shared regional identity and shared media markets. It's also important to note that the main transit carrier for San Jose isn't VTA light rail, but rather Caltrain and increasingly BART as shared with the rest of the Bay Area, so that's an odd point to bring up. You may not be that familiar with these areas, so some of it is probably unfamiliar to you which might account for why this is not obvious to you.
No, that's not quite the same, though San Bernardino and Riverside are part of the Los Angeles metropolitan area even if they aren't part of the Metropolitan Statistical Area. For Southern California, a lot of those counties are very large and so geographic landforms actually make a pretty large impact. Even though Riverside proper and San Bernardino proper are part of contiguous dense development from Los Angeles Basin to the San Gabriel Valley to the Inland Empire, but there are communities that are disconnected from that urbanization east of the San Bernardino and San Jacinto mountains and from each other. The same with those north of the San Gabriel Mountains.
That's in effect for the Bay Area as well with the geography playing a large part in urbanization patterns, but there's also a much larger shared regional identity and shared media markets. It's also important to note that the main transit carrier for San Jose isn't VTA light rail, but rather Caltrain and increasingly BART as shared with the rest of the Bay Area, so that's an odd point to bring up. You may not be that familiar with these areas, so some of it is probably unfamiliar to you which might account for why this is not obvious to you.
They are not part of the same metro area. People who are upset about this should write a persuasive letter to the census bureau, maybe you can change their minds!
Here's fun project someone can try-walk around the streets of San Francisco and ask people at random if they think they are part of one region with San Jose. Next, go down to central Los Angeles and ask the same about Riverside/San Bernardino.
It would be really amusing seeing someone from out of state on the ground in either place telling people authoritatively that they are all just one big city!
They are not part of the same metro area. People who are upset about this should write a persuasive letter to the census bureau, maybe you can change their minds!
Here's fun project someone can try-walk around the streets of San Francisco and ask people at random if they think they are part of one region with San Jose. Next, go down to central Los Angeles and ask the same about Riverside/San Bernardino.
It would be really amusing seeing someone from out of state on the ground in either place telling people authoritatively that they are all just one big city!
What? I spend more time on a daily basis talking to people that live in the San Jose MSA than I do people that live in the Austin MSA. I'm not kidding when I say that literally don't think I've ever heard someone describe where they live in relation to San Jose. They say "The Bay Area", "East Bay", "The Peninsula", "Silicon Valley", "Santa Clara county", etc, etc but "San Jose metro" or "San Jose area" literally never.
San Jose is discussed the same way as Cupertino, Mountain View, or Palo Alto. It's a city with defined political boundaries, not an overriding region. Most people probably wouldn't even know that it's technically a separately defined MSA from the rest of the SF Bay Area.
They are not part of the same metro area. People who are upset about this should write a persuasive letter to the census bureau, maybe you can change their minds!
Here's fun project someone can try-walk around the streets of San Francisco and ask people at random if they think they are part of one region with San Jose. Next, go down to central Los Angeles and ask the same about Riverside/San Bernardino.
It would be really amusing seeing someone from out of state on the ground in either place telling people authoritatively that they are all just one big city!
What are you talking about? The Metropolitan Statistical Area is a political mechanism to allocate funding. how exactly do you imagine writing a persuasive letter would work?
The US doesn't often change its county-level jurisdictions and the political system for doing so is intensely difficult which differs a lot from other developed countries.
And yea, people in SF will say San Jose is part of the Bay Area or the same region. Have you never lived in San Francisco before? How do you not know this? What part of the Bay Area have you lived in the Bay Area before?
And like I said, LA and the Inland Empire is somewhat different. You'll get varying answers on that, but generally someone from the Inland Empire will identify with LA though you won't necessarily see it going the other way.
What? I spend more time on a daily basis talking to people that live in the San Jose MSA than I do people that live in the Austin MSA. I'm not kidding when I say that literally don't think I've ever heard someone describe where they live in relation to San Jose. They say "The Bay Area", "East Bay", "The Peninsula", "Silicon Valley", "Santa Clara county", etc, etc but "San Jose metro" or "San Jose area" literally never.
San Jose is discussed the same way as Cupertino, Mountain View, or Palo Alto. It's a city with defined political boundaries, not an overriding region. Most people probably wouldn't even know that it's technically a separately defined MSA from the rest of the SF Bay Area.
And San Jose itself? I have heard terms like South Bay more than anything.
Speaking of MSA the whole SF Bay Area is way too fragmented anyway. Why is Solano Co its own MSA? North Bay is still SF Bay Area...
And I agree - ask anybody in SF Bay Area and nobody will separate Santa Clara County out. Where do you think most people living in Hayward or Fremont work? Silicon Valley...not Oakland...not SF, yet somehow Fremont is in SF Metro but neighboring Milpitas is not?
For LA vs IE - you actually have a mountain range separating the two for the most part. DC and Baltimore? Things like Patuxent Research Refuge forms a greenbelt of a sort between the two with the Laurel area being the only big place the two metro area touch (and to lesser extent, Crofton-Bowie on Route 3). There is zero physical barrier separating SF (including The Peninsula) from SJ.
And San Jose itself? I have heard terms like South Bay more than anything.
Speaking of MSA the whole SF Bay Area is way too fragmented anyway. Why is Solano Co its own MSA? North Bay is still SF Bay Area...
And I agree - ask anybody in SF Bay Area and nobody will separate Santa Clara County out. Where do you think most people living in Hayward or Fremont work? Silicon Valley...not Oakland...not SF, yet somehow Fremont is in SF Metro but neighboring Milpitas is not?
For LA vs IE - you actually have a mountain range separating the two for the most part. DC and Baltimore? Things like Patuxent Research Refuge forms a greenbelt of a sort between the two with the Laurel area being the only big place the two metro area touch (and to lesser extent, Crofton-Bowie on Route 3). There is zero physical barrier separating SF (including The Peninsula) from SJ.
Yea "South Bay" certainly should have been in my list. I'm not 100% sure on the dynamics of LA/Riverside, though I know my Dad spent some years growing up in San Bernardino and always described it as "LA". Then again he was a kid at the time. The one person I know from there always says "Southern California". DC/Baltimore are definitely separate, they just happen to overlap a bit in Howard County.
The Bay Area, on the other hand is one region all the way. Frankly if you are going to divide it into two separate areas it'd be SF proper (+ maybe Oakland) vs. the rest of the more suburban Bay Area. (I say that because living in San Francisco is actually a fundamentally different lifestyle from the living in the rest of the area. San Jose just isn't like this.)
The comp I would make for the Bay Area is DFW, with San Jose as the Fort Worth. Nobody in Arlington is calling themselves a Fort Worthian, for example.
Yea "South Bay" certainly should have been in my list. I'm not 100% sure on the dynamics of LA/Riverside, though I know my Dad spent some years growing up in San Bernardino and always described it as "LA". Then again he was a kid at the time. The one person I know from there always says "Southern California". DC/Baltimore are definitely separate, they just happen to overlap a bit in Howard County.
The Bay Area, on the other hand is one region all the way. Frankly if you are going to divide it into two separate areas it'd be SF proper (+ maybe Oakland) vs. the rest of the more suburban Bay Area. (I say that because living in San Francisco is actually a fundamentally different lifestyle from the living in the rest of the area. San Jose just isn't like this.)
The comp I would make for the Bay Area is DFW, with San Jose as the Fort Worth. Nobody in Arlington is calling themselves a Fort Worthian, for example.
I'm not 100% familiar with LA either...my only point is that at least there's a physical separation between the two, but not so much for SF vs. Santa Clara Co.
One of the reason why Inland Empire is always associated with LA though is that neither San Bernardino nor Riverside are exactly "city" themselves and even less so when you put it next to LA.
For me if you separate San Jose from SF you have to separate Oakland from SF also...if anything East Bay does not even feel the same as The Peninsula. Ultimately, though, you can't separate Oakland from SF, and thus, you just can't separate SJ from SF, either.
For Arlington - at worst I've heard "Dallas suburb" but most people from there will say they're from the "Metroplex" or "DFW Metroplex".
As for DC/Baltimore - they are definitely distinct from each other but only b/c Baltimore was actually the larger of the two for many years up until 1960s/1970s which fuels its identity. In the two Cal metro areas, San Jose was always smaller than SF and Inland Empire literally only grew b/c of cheap lands in the outskirt of LA.
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