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South of Virginia, the pull to NYC within the Southeast is not very strong outside of South FL. Atlanta tends to exert the strongest pull within its region, especially given its the largest city between DC, Dallas/Houston, Chicago, and Miami. Its most prevalent outside of GA within SC, AL, and MS, with a strong influence in TN, NC and north FL, as well as perhaps far SW Virginia. Real Southerners are still proud of their region and don't want to be associated with "Yankees". Its just that a lot of those transplants get "homesick" and want to import their culture down there.
IMO TX is its own thing and tends to be proud of its own cities that provide its own pull. Dallas/Houston are to the south central US to what Chicago is to the north central US. Many of its cities pull from parts of AR, LA, NM, KS, and especially OK. To a New Yorker, "Houston" often refers to the street in Lower Manhattan more than it does with the Texas City, especially given the HOUSE-Ton pronunciation of that street. If anything the mantra is more "Don't Californicate Texas" down there.
I'm 33, have lived in the South most of my life, and have never heard anyone use the word "Yankee" to refer to northerners unless it was in jest, and even then I've heard it used maybe twice. You guys have to let go of these antiquated views of southerners that are outdated by generations; this is yet another "City Data-ism" that is perpetuated on here to levels you rarely, if ever, see outside and offline...
I've lived in 7 states from California to New York, been to 32 from California to Massachusetts, and one thing I'm confident in stating is that people assimilate to the culture of where they are. I've seen this every place I've ever been, most recently the 16 days I spent in Idaho. Yes, people bring parts of their culture with them and that diversifies the culture of the new place, but you become more and more ingrained into the local lifestyle to a greater degree. Boise is full of transplanted Californians---->they assimilate to what is Boise, more than making Boise feel like California, even though all those Californians add a layer of diversity that isn't traditional to Idaho; those Californians adapt to Boise and the characteristics and culture of Boise...
I've literally seen this every single place I've been...
For sure, Atlanta may have the largest sphere of influence in the South. Dallas and Houston are pretty large too, they definitely extend into West Tennessee/Memphis, and smother Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma. I'm not certain how far north Texas' reach extends, and I'm not sure how far west either---->guy I worked with in Idaho from El Paso told me that Dallas has huge draw there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeignCrunch
NYC: the entire world
More fluffing it up haha...
NY is the greatest international draw here, with the probably the largest sphere of influence here, but is not the only international draw in the US, or the world, and it it's pull isn't so great that it's sphere reaches the entire US. You guys have to stop with this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTimidBlueBars
Chicago is on easy mode due to being so much larger than anywhere else in the Midwest. Like how even places as far inland as Montana (and Alaska) think of Seattle as their "big city".
What about Maine, especially away from the coast? Are they oriented towards Montreal or just NYC again?
Northern Idaho is definitely more Seattle-oriented. Boise has multiple places it orbits, probably most closely Salt Lake. There is a touch of both Seattle and Denver in Boise but Salt Lake probably has a stronger pull...
NYC is the sun. Nothing else even comes close to its orbit of influence in the US.
This isn't true at all, speaks to the East Coast bias of this board, reeks of someone who isn't well-traveled domestically, and is more NY boosting...
Los Angeles has insane pull that rivals NY, if I had to lean one way or the other I'd say slightly NY because it is on the more populated side if the country, likely helps it a bit, but let's be very clear. Los Angeles is "the city", the primary one, the main one if someone had to name just one city with gravitational pull, west of Texas. LA's influence is felt along the entire West Coast, similar to NY's on the East Coast, it's a parallel dynamic. Obviously SF and The Bay are far away enough and large enough that they have their own pretty big orbit, but overall they orbit LA's larger sphere...
This website is maybe the last place on the internet I've encountered that doesn't respect NY and LA as parallel cities. LA has only been a city of esteem since around 1900. It's 2022. It took LA 100 years or so, give or take, to become 90% of what NY is, and NY has been The City for 400 years. This is another thread for another day but LA's meteoric ascension is evidently really bothersome to East Coast bias...
Quote:
Originally Posted by g500
I live in Harrisburg, PA, and I feel we are in Philadelphia's orbit. And then (*Trigger Warning*) Philadelphia itself orbits NYC.
York, PA is also in Philadelphia's orbit, but does have some connection to Baltimore. But it is still in the Philadelphia orbit.
Williamsport, PA is in the Philadelphia orbit, though only a few residents would begrudgigly admit that. The Williamsport area is a very rural setting, and they are not too fond of big cities.
State College, PA is probably in the Philadelphia orbit, but is probably the dividing line. Anywhere west is in Pittsburgh's gravity well (Altoona, Johnstown, Erie).
Pittsburgh itself orbits... well... probably NYC distantly (just has a wide/long orbit like Uranus does, hehe).
No city in Pennsylvania (outside of Philadelphia or Pittsburgh) is large enough to have any overreaching gravitational pull. This is due to their small size, small town/city identities, and the provinciality of their local governments.
Still, some small cities might have their own tiny gravitational field that carries for a few miles, such as Allentown (Lehigh Valley), Harrisburg (Susquehanna Valley), Scranton (NEPA/the Poconos), and Erie. These are like small nodes in a much larger network. Think of these cities as very small moons, or large asteroids, that orbit Philadelphia or Pittsburgh (planets), which, in turn, orbit NYC (a star).
Scranton's bubble extends into Southern Tier NY (overlaps with Syracuse and Rochester's sphere in Binghamton/Elmira). I thought that was really cool to see, that Scranton even has reach like that...
Would you agree with me that Omahans regard KC as their big brother much as Kansas Citians consider Omaha their little brother? (Note that this is not a "big city"/hinterland distinction but rather a peer-to-peer relationship.)
Personal note: My mom, a Jayhawk who spent most of her youth in a small town in northeast Kansas, was born in Omaha, and I had several relatives who still lived there.
This isn't really the kind of "pull" we're talking about here, but:
I noticed growing up in Kansas City that in the summer, California license plates became almost as numerous as Missouri and Kansas plates on cars cruising the city's thoroughfares. And I also have family living in Los Angeles — as of now, I think it's diminished to one great-aunt living in Baldwin Hills.
Given that the principal railroad connecting LA and San Diego to the country's midsection was and remains the Santa Fe (as BNSF now), this made some sense to me, and it's the basis of my contention that about half of Southern California has relatives in the Greater Kansas City area. Some of those Idaho transplants can probably trace their family trees back to the Heart of America as well.
Scranton's bubble extends into Southern Tier NY (overlaps with Syracuse and Rochester's sphere in Binghamton/Elmira). I thought that was really cool to see, that Scranton even has reach like that...
Is Scranton itself more NY or Philly?
I'd put Scranton in New York's sphere of influence rather than Philadelphia's. The Poconos, just to Scranton's east and southeast, are an overlap zone, the presence of one of its counties in the New York MSA notwithstanding.
I'd put Scranton in New York's sphere of influence rather than Philadelphia's. The Poconos, just to Scranton's east and southeast, are an overlap zone, the presence of one of its counties in the New York MSA notwithstanding.
No doubt!
I think it's really cool how so many places have reach and influence. We get so caught up with large cities that we forget, many people still live in rural or exurban areas, and what is considered "the city" has outstanding variance...
The entirety of New York State all falls under New York's orbit, but there are bubbles of overlap within that sphere. I would say Rochester has the second largest reach in NY rather than Buffalo, which is oddly pretty self-contained. There's New England influence once you get to Albany east, but I'm not sure it's a specific city so much as New England in general...
I'm in Fayetteville NC for the weekend with my parents, and Fayetteville, which falls under the larger Raleigh sphere, which itself is under DC and NY's sphere, has its own bubble, extending east to Clinton (Sampson County), southwest to Laurinburg (Scotland County), and south into the Pee Dee region of SC (Dillon) where it begins to overlap and transition with Florence. Fayetteville doesn't extend too far north, by the time you hit Dunn or Lillington in Harnett County you're transitioning into more concrete Raleigh territory, though Harnett in general is an overlap and transitional area between Raleigh and Fayetteville....
But everything inside the parameters I just defined, is mostly small towns within rural counties, Fayetteville is the first "city" of importance. Then Raleigh is the bigger city lol...
I think this is a really fun thought exercise in general and speaks to the social and economic diversity of the US as a whole!
The thing about York is that there's an interstate (I-83) that goes directly to Baltimore where as going to Philly involves driving on divided highway (US 30).
Lancaster is different - it has no interstate access anywhere, but does have Amtrak Keystone Service to Philly, definitely putting it in Philly's sphere.
Now for "big city/metro" (since Baltimore MSA itself is more mid-size), York is in Philly's sphere.
LOL that was exactly what I was getting to...just forgot the exact quote.
“Big” is relative.
Baltimore is closer in scope/scale to Philly, DC & Boston than any of them are to NYC. They are all major cities in form/function despite the disparity in absolute size.
Geopolitics plays a more important role than absolute size in the context of this thread, Denver being a primary example.
I actually think this whole "pull" discourse is absurd. Many more people are moving from Chicago to Denver and Tampa than from Tampa or Denver to Chicago. New York is absolutely a global hub and exists in its own little ethereal bubble. But most other legacy cities in the US stopped having much "pull" a long time ago.
I actually think this whole "pull" discourse is absurd. Many more people are moving from Chicago to Denver and Tampa than from Tampa or Denver to Chicago. New York is absolutely a global hub and exists in its own little ethereal bubble. But most other legacy cities in the US stopped having much "pull" a long time ago.
Please.... Chicago ranks as a Global city top 10 and Alpha city also. Along with LA. If unhappy as many tell you ..... take your degrees/resume and family and go where you PREFER. NYC or bust.... or LA both you like better. Cost be darned. Choose. You already cane many thousands of miles to America and chose a city you said you hate.
Pushing the NYC alone is global is your personal issue that only you can fix saying you hate Chicago in threads.
Venting here is no problem solver. That is on you..... PEACE. America has so many city/metros to choose.
As others noted..... The NYC just is so far superior has been wore out. Most threads just keep NYC out.
Last edited by LeafyDenseCities; 10-16-2022 at 08:42 PM..
Would you agree with me that Omahans regard KC as their big brother much as Kansas Citians consider Omaha their little brother? (Note that this is not a "big city"/hinterland distinction but rather a peer-to-peer relationship.)
Personal note: My mom, a Jayhawk who spent most of her youth in a small town in northeast Kansas, was born in Omaha, and I had several relatives who still lived there.
I absolutely agree with your assessment. I’ve always felt it that way from Omahans and Kansas Citians alike.
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