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Old 08-12-2023, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaszilla View Post
Minneapolis is in the eastern deciduous biome. It's not a western city at all and is very lush and green in the spring and summer.
The Eastern deciduous forest also runs up the Missouri River valley from the river's mouth above St. Louis all the way to Omaha.

That also explains why Kansas City looks the way it does. The difference is: Since the Missouri River floodplain is also where one finds the most fertile soil, much of the rural forest has become farmland, with the trees confined to the hills rising from the floodplain.
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Old 08-12-2023, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Ga, from Minneapolis
1,351 posts, read 885,008 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
The Eastern deciduous forest also runs up the Missouri River valley from the river's mouth above St. Louis all the way to Omaha.

That also explains why Kansas City looks the way it does. The difference is: Since the Missouri River floodplain is also where one finds the most fertile soil, much of the rural forest has become farmland, with the trees confined to the hills rising from the floodplain.
Yes, the midwest is much more green than it gets credit for.
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Old 08-12-2023, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
Yes, thank you for that point. It's not that Minneapolis is lacking for trees and nature--I see it has that in abundance. But the more nuanced quality about Philadelphia and the Mid-Atlantic more broadly is that it does absolutely have a more "wild" quality in terms of lushness and greenery compared to the Upper Midwest.
I feel like you're straining quite a bit to imply Philadelphia's nature is more "wild" and "lush" than Minneapolis. Honestly that's an absurd statement. Obviously I realize Philadelphia is more of a subtropical climate and thus has plant species that can survive milder winters, but the species found in Minnesota are basically identical to what is found on the East Coast due to the same humid climate. Farther west, beyond the Dakotas, is where plant species start to visibly change as it gets drier.
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Old 08-12-2023, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jennifat View Post
I feel like you're straining quite a bit to imply Philadelphia's nature is more "wild" and "lush" than Minneapolis. Honestly that's an absurd statement. Obviously I realize Philadelphia is more of a subtropical climate and thus has plant species that can survive milder winters, but the species found in Minnesota are basically identical to what is found on the East Coast due to the same humid climate. Farther west, beyond the Dakotas, is where plant species start to visibly change as it gets drier.
I assure you that I'm not claiming Minneapolis is the high desert; it's a very nuanced thing and probably visually subjective to many.

I promise this isn't something I'm just making up, and my claim is based on real analysis of plant ecosystems. Even within biomes (like deciduous forest) the character can be quite different based on biomass density presence of different species. This map shows "woody native plant" density across the US, for example:

http://www.bonap.org/diversity/woody...ty20080319.png

http://bonap.org/

This is something I've just been more attuned to when visiting different parts of the US, as there are definitely differences. Most people likely don't care enough to notice, but they are there.

Last edited by Duderino; 08-12-2023 at 01:54 PM..
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Old 08-13-2023, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Indiana Uplands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
I assure you that I'm not claiming Minneapolis is the high desert; it's a very nuanced thing and probably visually subjective to many.

I promise this isn't something I'm just making up, and my claim is based on real analysis of plant ecosystems. Even within biomes (like deciduous forest) the character can be quite different based on biomass density presence of different species. This map shows "woody native plant" density across the US, for example:

http://www.bonap.org/diversity/woody...ty20080319.png

Home

This is something I've just been more attuned to when visiting different parts of the US, as there are definitely differences. Most people likely don't care enough to notice, but they are there.
The interesting item of note is that the Canadian Shield geology extends southward in Wisconsin at a similar latitude as the Twin Cities, 45N. The Twin Cities are not in the Canadian Shield. However, due to being more elevated and further east- it is significantly colder in the winter. Tomahawk, WI is in plant hardiness zone 3B/4A with a typical coldest temperature in each winter between -30F and -35F. Winchester, WI at 46N latitude at 1,700 ft. elevation has an average January high temperature of around 12F, significantly colder than Minneapolis in January at 24F.
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Old 08-13-2023, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
The interesting item of note is that the Canadian Shield geology extends southward in Wisconsin at a similar latitude as the Twin Cities, 45N. The Twin Cities are not in the Canadian Shield. However, due to being more elevated and further east- it is significantly colder in the winter. Tomahawk, WI is in plant hardiness zone 3B/4A with a typical coldest temperature in each winter between -30F and -35F. Winchester, WI at 46N latitude at 1,700 ft. elevation has an average January high temperature of around 12F, significantly colder than Minneapolis in January at 24F.
Is the Driftless Area part of the Canadian Shield?
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Old 08-13-2023, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Ga, from Minneapolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
The interesting item of note is that the Canadian Shield geology extends southward in Wisconsin at a similar latitude as the Twin Cities, 45N. The Twin Cities are not in the Canadian Shield. However, due to being more elevated and further east- it is significantly colder in the winter. Tomahawk, WI is in plant hardiness zone 3B/4A with a typical coldest temperature in each winter between -30F and -35F. Winchester, WI at 46N latitude at 1,700 ft. elevation has an average January high temperature of around 12F, significantly colder than Minneapolis in January at 24F.
Minneapolis also has an urban heat island effect. Rochester MN is about 2 hours south of Minneapolis and averages slightly colder temperatures. The winters in Tomahawk are almost identical to the Twin Cities based on averages.
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Old 08-13-2023, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Indiana Uplands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
Is the Driftless Area part of the Canadian Shield?
The Driftless Region is not part of the Canadian Shield, it is the bluff country along the Mississippi River that escaped a larger amount of glaciation during the last ice age.
"Soils are typically silt loams (loess) and sandy loams in the uplands and alluvial or terrace deposits in the valley floors. Large, meandering rivers with broad floodplains are also characteristic of this landscape and include the Mississippi, Wisconsin, Chippewa, Black, La Crosse, and Kickapoo."

The Canadian Shield is generally comprised of thin soils, lots of rocky ground, lots of lakes, and northern hardwoods along with mixed evergreen and boreal forests. In the Northern Highland region of the Northwoods of Wisconsin the primary soils are: "...Soils are sands and gravels, some with a loamy mantle. Soil productivity is low compared to glacial till but relatively high for outwash sands. Wetlands are numerous; most have organic soils of peat or muck."

The Driftless Region is comprised of mostly deciduous forests.

Here's an interesting source:

https://gotbooks.miracosta.edu/geolo...an_shield.html
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Old 08-13-2023, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
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The Driftless also has way more genetic diversity than most of the rest of the Midwest. The glaciation of the ice age was an extinction event, because the Driftless escaped it, is has a ton more species, especially plants, insects, snails and the like. I've heard wildlife biologists refer to it as a "genetic ark".
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Old 08-14-2023, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Indiana Uplands
26,428 posts, read 46,599,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaszilla View Post
Minneapolis also has an urban heat island effect. Rochester MN is about 2 hours south of Minneapolis and averages slightly colder temperatures. The winters in Tomahawk are almost identical to the Twin Cities based on averages.
That surprises me because due to the UHI in the Twin Cities, Tomahawk, WI and areas to the north often have colder low temperatures by a significant number of degrees.
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