Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Schools work a little different in Arizona than most of these other places, you're not tied to the school you happen to live next to. Suburbs like Gilbert and Chandler have good school systems, there is also a strong charter school offering in the Phoenix area. Just some food for thought on that.
Phoenix tends to get bashed for lack of a "real city" but there is quite a bit going on downtown these days as well. An expanding light rail, growing urbanity, and some changes in voting patterns will likely mean a more funds go into things like education and social programs as well.
Here's a photo of downtown I took a few weekends ago.
Yes, Downtown Pittsburgh is the more complete city than St. Louis. But I’d take a suburb like Clayton, over anywhere in the Pittsburgh sphere, and it’s not that close to me. Sure, Fox Chapel has a nice bucolic feel (for the 5k residents that live there) and Mount Lebanon has some established, well kept areas. But to say it’s objectively a nicer place to be a $500k+ earner is simply false. You make it sound like the OP is going to be stuck in Hamilton Heights.
St. Louis has a long history. The city, much like Detroit and Cleveland, has seen better days. But the metros offer some great places to raise a family. I’d argue nicer places than can be found in Pittsburgh. There’s nothing in Pittsburgh that can compete with the Clayton-Ladue-Frontenac-Town and Country belt west of St. Louis.
What I will say, is living in the nicer areas of the Pittsburgh MSA, will be easier on the wallet than those suburbs outside of St. Louis. So that certainly should be considered.
Since Philadelphia ranks somewhat highly on your list of cities to consider, and since the caliber of the schools is a major concern for you, even though you're Nepalese and (I presume) not all that affluent, in contrast to the assumption I made about the people who would read this article (actually, it's not an assumption: our print readership skews highly affluent and mighty white), I'm going to toss out this partly autobiographical article I wrote about Philadelphia's public grade schools for your consideration:
I will allow that once your kids reach high school age, other factors kick in, but then again, two of the 10 top high schools in Pennsylvania (and one of the 50 top high schools in the country) are also Philadelphia public schools. That one, however, is a crapshoot to get into; the other is easier, but you still have to clear a high academic bar. If your kids can clear it, however, they will go to one of the most racially and ethnically diverse high schools anywhere in the country.
I will, however, back up STLgasm in saying that you shouldn't let the naysayers dissuade you from considering that city. The years may not have been as kind to the core city of the metro as they could have been, but you will enjoy a high quality of life at a reasonable cost of living there — and that seems to be as big a concern to you as the schools are. I suspect that what I say above about Philadelphia's public schools applies to St. Louis City's as well, and if it doesn't, well, you can always live in University City or Clayton.
But if you'd like to do your residency in a city where there is a strong tradition of medical education and biomedical research, then Philadelphia will top St. Louis —*and every other city you're considering save Boston. And the COL in Philadelphia is a good bit more reasonable than in Boston, and once you start making what a typical doctor makes, you will find your salary goes further here as well.
This just in on our segment called
“Previously Unsaid Sentences in Human History” we have a new submission:
i know (seriously).
It's like the Twilight Zone.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Serling
"We know that a dream can be real, but who ever thought that reality
could be a dream? We exist, of course, but how, in what way?
Do you live here, in this country, in this world,
or do you live, instead — in The Twilight Zone?"
Yes, Downtown Pittsburgh is the more complete city than St. Louis. But I’d take a suburb like Clayton, over anywhere in the Pittsburgh sphere, and it’s not that close to me. Sure, Fox Chapel has a nice bucolic feel (for the 5k residents that live there) and Mount Lebanon has some established, well kept areas. But to say it’s objectively a nicer place to be a $500k+ earner is simply false. You make it sound like the OP is going to be stuck in Hamilton Heights.
St. Louis has a long history. The city, much like Detroit and Cleveland, has seen better days. But the metros offer some great places to raise a family. I’d argue nicer places than can be found in Pittsburgh. There’s nothing in Pittsburgh that can compete with the Clayton-Ladue-Frontenac-Town and Country belt west of St. Louis.
What I will say, is living in the nicer areas of the Pittsburgh MSA, will be easier on the wallet than those suburbs outside of St. Louis. So that certainly should be considered.
We were specifically looking to move to the Clayton area long term because it has one of the best school districts in the country. I think older houses there cost in the $1mm - $1.5mm range while newer houses cost $2mm+. While we would like to live in a newer house, I'm not sure we'll be able to afford it on a ~600k salary. We know St. Louis very well since we currently live here (not in Clayton, but in St. Louis City).
We don't know much about Pittsburgh. It seems that there are some very highly ranked elementary schools in the area and we have friends that have strongly vouched for the public school system there. Areas that feed into the North Allegheny School District seem to have nice new, spacious houses for well under $1mm. Fox Chapel seems to be significantly more expensive and the schools seem to have a lot less diversity. However, a big part of the charm of Clayton for us is the walkability. My wife could walk to work. We could walk our child to work. Our kids' friends would all be in a walkable distance. Long term I hope to work close by so that my commute is very short or hopefully walkable. I don't know if it's possible to recreate this experience in Pittsburgh. I don't want to spend a signficant portion of my time commuting to and from work. In addition, I think compensation for the specific field I'm targeting to go to in medicine might pay $50-$100k less in Pittsburgh compared to St. Louis (but it's hard to get data on this so i would need additional information to get some more perspective).
I guess the bar is a little higher for all of the cities outside of St. Louis because we know the city so well and we don't know any of the other cities that well.
Last edited by medicalresident123; 01-19-2023 at 06:05 AM..
Reason: Added comments
But I’d take a suburb like Clayton, over anywhere in the Pittsburgh sphere, and it’s not that close to me. Sure, Fox Chapel has a nice bucolic feel (for the 5k residents that live there) and Mount Lebanon has some established, well kept areas. But to say it’s objectively a nicer place to be a $500k+ earner is simply false. You make it sound like the OP is going to be stuck in Hamilton Heights.
St. Louis has a long history. The city, much like Detroit and Cleveland, has seen better days. But the metros offer some great places to raise a family. I’d argue nicer places than can be found in Pittsburgh. There’s nothing in Pittsburgh that can compete with the Clayton-Ladue-Frontenac-Town and Country belt west of St. Louis.
I'm not going to push back on the notion that the St. Louis area has some great places to live, but you're absolutely selling Pittsburgh short if you think there's nothing comparable to the nicest parts of the St. Louis area.
I think the major, unaccounted for difference in your assessment is that Pittsburgh's nicest nabes are much more concentrated in the city proper compared to the St. Louis area. This goes well beyond just downtown; if you're not familiar with neighborhoods like Oakland, Squirrel Hill, and Shadyside, then you've overlooked some of the nicest and complete urban neighborhoods in the US--no question.
The suburbs of Pittsburgh can be as nice as any (places like Sewickley/Edgeworth, Bellevue, Regent Square/Swissvale, Aspinwall, Oakmont, and Carnegie stand out in addition to those you mentioned), although certainly you'll run into towns with a much more weathered, post-industrial feel along the Monongahela River.
There's not necessarily a Clayton analogue, yes, but I guess my point is that you'd find Clayton+ in the Pittsburgh city limits, whereas I think that's a heavier lift in St. Louis, which has no analogue to Oakland.
The elephant in the room here is also location: Pittsburgh is far closer to more "stuff" than St. Louis, which once to leave the immediate area is far more limited for recreation and weekend trips.
Just some things to keep in mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwj119
What I will say, is living in the nicer areas of the Pittsburgh MSA, will be easier on the wallet than those suburbs outside of St. Louis. So that certainly should be considered.
Not necessarily true, actually. Median sales prices for top neighborhoods in both metro areas are around the mid-500s.
I'm not going to push back on the notion that the St. Louis area has some great places to live, but you're absolutely selling Pittsburgh short if you think there's nothing comparable to the nicest parts of the St. Louis area.
I think the major, unaccounted for difference in your assessment is that Pittsburgh's nicest nabes are much more concentrated in the city proper compared to the St. Louis area. This goes well beyond just downtown; if you're not familiar with neighborhoods like Oakland, Squirrel Hill, and Shadyside, then you've overlooked some of the nicest and complete urban neighborhoods in the US--no question.
The suburbs of Pittsburgh can be as nice as any (places like Sewickley/Edgeworth, Aspinwall, Oakmont, and Carnegie stand out in addition to those you mentioned), although certainly you'll run into towns with a much more weathered, post-industrial feel along the Monongahela River.
There's not necessarily a Clayton analogue, yes, but I guess my point is that you'd find Clayton+ in the Pittsburgh city limits, whereas I think that's a heavier lift in St. Louis, which has no analogue to Oakland.
I agree Pittsburgh is underrated (great city), but if you honestly don’t think St. Louis has EXCEPTIONAL urban neighborhoods in the city proper, you just don’t know STL at all.
We were specifically looking to move to the Clayton area long term because it has one of the best school districts in the country. I think older houses there cost in the $1mm - $1.5mm range while newer houses cost $2mm+. While we would like to live in a newer house, I'm not sure we'll be able to afford it on a ~600k salary. We know St. Louis very well since we currently live here (not in Clayton, but in St. Louis City).
We don't know much about Pittsburgh. It seems that there are some very highly ranked elementary schools in the area and we have friends that have strongly vouched for the public school system there. Areas that feed into the North Allegheny School District seem to have nice new, spacious houses for well under $1mm. Fox Chapel seems to be significantly more expensive and the schools seem to have a lot less diversity. However, a big part of the charm of Clayton for us is the walkability. My wife could walk to work. We could walk our child to work. Our kids' friends would all be in a walkable distance. Long term I hope to work close by so that my commute is very short or hopefully walkable. I don't know if it's possible to recreate this experience in Pittsburgh. I don't want to spend a signficant portion of my time commuting to and from work. In addition, I think compensation for the specific field I'm targeting to go to in medicine might pay $50-$100k less in Pittsburgh compared to St. Louis (but it's hard to get data on this so i would need additional information to get some more perspective).
I guess the bar is a little higher for all of the cities outside of St. Louis because we know the city so well and we don't know any of the other cities that well.
Yeah, people just broadly make statements about cities like St. Louis or Detroit. No doubt the cities are struggling and constantly working to reinvent themselves. But one minute in Birmingham, MI or in Clayton, MO, and you realize just how wonderful these areas can be.
Clayton has some middling housing between old and grandiose, and new. Inventory is just very tight right now. But with a bit of patience, coupled with the economic headwinds we all face, you’ll be able to find the right house if it’s a place you can see yourself.
But digging a bit deeper on the walkability + schools + transportation criteria.. No places better on your list than Philadelphia and Boston. Inner mainline suburbs sound like a great fit, as do many of the inner suburbs of Boston. The former will be 30%+ cheaper for the same house. And is a healthcare hub. Boston is arguably an even bigger healthcare hub, and has to me, some of the best suburbs for walkability and convenience to the medical centers. But it’s truly very, very expensive.
Take a look at the Ardmore, PA area. As for Boston, Newton would be a great fit, though there are other good options like Needham, Winchester, Arlington. Those will offer a central location to a large % of hospitals and healthcare facilities.
I agree Pittsburgh is underrated (great city), but if you honestly don’t think St. Louis has EXCEPTIONAL urban neighborhoods in the city proper, you just don’t know STL at all.
For sure, and it definitely was not my intent to imply otherwise. I loved Lafayette Square when I visited (didn't get to Soulard, but that looks great, too).
I was more referring to proportions of "top" neighborhoods, which tend to be more suburb-based in the St. Louis area compared to Pittsburgh.
For sure, and it definitely was not my intent to imply otherwise. I loved Lafayette Square when I visited (didn't get to Soulard, but that looks great, too).
I was more referring to proportions of "top" neighborhoods, which tend to be more suburb-based in the St. Louis area compared to Pittsburgh.
Yes, that makes sense. Pittsburgh, in contrast to most other major post-industrial cities, has retained a very high quality of life in the city proper, and the city still contains some of the most sought after neighborhoods in the region. I always considered that a function of PGH’s topography, location and its inherently more eastern culture. It’s a great city.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
