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I’m not suggesting the area is hostile to whites or that there are any race issues at all. Just asking the question out loud; do young families who would have moved to Atlanta 20 years ago, now chose another place because of a perception that people not from the area would assume due to what they here from both blacks and whites; and if that could be a reason for the white slowdown in overall regional growth. Or if the black and Hispanic populations are growing sooo fast that it makes white growth pail in comparison.
I did an exercise years ago…if you only count the central counties of Atlanta you already have a region that’s equal in black and white population. Only when you add the far out places like Hall and Walton counties do you get the numbers you do.
I don't have a definitive answer to this question, but Atlanta is consistent with other similar sized or larger metro areas across the country in having a flat or declining non-Hispanic White population. With the median age of non-Hispanic Whites being several years higher than for Blacks and Hispanics in the area, this trend will continue regardless of migration patterns. Young families in general are a much more diverse group than they were a few decades ago.
I don’t understand the people that are saying Atlanta is fading. Yes, Raleigh, Charlotte, and Nashville give it great competition, but none of those cities match it’s numerical growth year over year nor the economy it has. The Atlanta metro passed Miami in population and is on its way to passing Philadelphia if it hasn’t already. In addition, the GDP is on the verge of passing Philly as well. Atlanta is ascending, not descending. I am a native of Atlanta who currently lives in Charlotte. While Charlotte and Raleigh are ascending too, neither cities are ascending in relevance as Atlanta. Movies, tv shows, music, sports, politics, the power of Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, and other races are on the rise in the area and there is no other city in the southeast, outside of Miami, that can match its diversity. That is why the political universe descended upon Atlanta during to 2020 presidential race and senate race. Just because some other cities in the southeast are rising doesn’t mean that Atlanta is stagnant or fading. And the talk about Dallas being more relevant than Atlanta is heresy. Atlanta is in everything, especially tv, music, and anything related to black people. Atlanta is the number one destination for black people and has been for a while now. Do not take away all of the great things Atlanta has going for it. It is still relevant and is still the most prominent city in the Southeast and that won’t be changing anytime soon. Raleigh has to catchup to Nashville and Nashville has to catchup Charlotte, and Charlotte has to catchup to Miami before they can claim any type of prominence! All are below Atlanta in relevance in my opinion and that won’t be changing anytime soon.
If even a metro area like Atlanta is "declining" then pretty much 90% of US is declining.
Want a large area that is starting to decline? That would be Chicago which is not really gaining population, losing business left and right, and clouts being taken away.
Areas like Nashville will eventually plateau also. Plus for all of Nashville's rise come at the expense of decline of places like Memphis.
Oh...and Raleigh or Charlotte? Greenville SC is the new hotspot lol.
I think the “pushing Atlanta” back is where I see the issue. In 1990, Atlanta was the 12th largest metro in the country (behind Seattle incidentally). In 2000, it was 11th. Now it will be 7th with next year’s estimates. It was never in that stretch bigger than Houston or Dallas-Ft. Worth.
I think what’s happening is some people are discussing the media perception. Atlanta was likely the fastest large-city grower in the 90s after Phoenix. It was therefore used as everywhere and by everyone as the standard for Sun Belt growth, and the shine of the Olympics and the Braves and Turner was a strong halo effect. Now Florida and Texas are the media’s shiny objects. Not without reason, as those places are definitely leading the growth in a post-pandemic world. But Atlanta’s pop into the mainstream of America’s large cities was a generation ago, and now it’s simply part of the conversation. So on that narrow front I could see an argument that it’s declining. But I think it’s misleading and a mistake to view it through that lens alone.
What does "post-pandemic" have to do with FL's growth? FL is growing so fast because the Boomers began reaching retirement age in 2011 and will continue to flood the state for about another six years. Not sure if immigrants are still coming to FL as fast as they have been for the last 4 decades, but that's another factor that has nothing to do with the pandemic.
My lifetime began in 1989. I began hawking Rand McNally maps and being really interested in American cities sometime around 1998 or so, so the cities that have faded the most since I've been city-conscious:
1. Cleveland
2. St Louis
3. Hartford
4. Syracuse
5. Buffalo
6. Baltimore
7. Memphis
8. Birmingham
9. Detroit
10. New Orleans 11. Rochester
12. Milwaukee
13. Dayton
14. Allentown
15. Bridgeport
16. New Haven
17. Worcester
18. Pittsburgh
19. Philadelphia
20. Rochester
60% of these cities are Northeast cities, when you add the 5 Midwest cities on my list, 85% of my list are Northern US cities. And I think this is a fair illustration, as in the quarter century I've been city-conscious, the Northeast and North in general is no longer the overbearing dominant region of the country...
Cleveland and St Louis used to be major, major cities. And they are still "major" in an inclusive application of the term, but by and large they are just another city today. No real esteem outside their immediate region, no one is lining up for vacations there, no large cultural output anymore, etc...
Pittsburgh and Philadelphia have certainly lost relevance, but are still pretty high on the national radar. Whereas a city like Syracuse used to be on the national radar and is completely off the map now, with cities like Buffalo in danger of following suit, falling completely away from national relevance entirely...
The three southern cities of Memphis, New Orleans, and Birmingham, all were much bigger deals even when I was a kid. New Orleans and Memphis have been relegated to "just another city" status, and Birmingham is right next to Buffalo in formerly prominent, in danger of completely falling off the map entirely, status..
Again yall are taking the comment out of context.
One poster said Atlanta is rising to be a top 5 city and U disagreed.
And then I stated that Atlanta is not as close to the top 5 as it was in the 90s. If you take that as declining that is up to you. But a city can gain in population, gdp, whatever, but if other cities prominence is growing faster they will pass it.
The comment should be taken SOLELY in context with becoming a top 5 city. Atlanta is not catching up either NYC, LA, SFBA, DC or Chicago anytime soon in prominence and since the 90s Houston and DFW has leaped frogged Atlanta in prominence so yes, Atlanta has not gotten closer to the top 5, if anything it has moved further away.
Here is the start of the convo, please take it in context:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjbradleynyc
I think Atlanta is more relevant today, than it has ever been.
I'd say Atlanta is in the top 5 most relevant and influential areas in the US, in 2023.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBears02
Heavily disagree with this. Atlanta is very relevant and important but it is not more relevant and important than New York, LA, Chicago, DC, SF, Boston, Houston.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atadytic19
Yeah that was a little funny.
The top 5 ( NY, LA, Chicago, DC, SF) right now is pretty much universally agreed upon.
After that it is widely accepted that Boston and Houston are on the next rung.
If anything I think Atlanta is losing relevance.
To me it isn't as big of a shining star as it was in the 90s and 2000s. You hear a lot about up and comers ( Nashville, Charlotte, Raleigh- Durham).
I am getting more and more confident that DFW trounced Atlanta. Both are regional hubs DFW IA now more so. By a good bit. The GDP is much larger, and DFW is now 1.7M people larger than Atlanta. That is a lot more than the distance between Chicago and DFW.
Both Houston and DFW are forming a tier that is one above the ATL, Miami, Philadelphia group
A place can lose influence without it being declining. Philadelphia metro is growing and at the same time it is losing influence. I would not say that it is declining, other cities just passed it up.
San Antonio is growing faster than Austin but Austin is the one that is more influential.
This is nothing to feel slighted about. Atlanta was ahead of its peers in the 90's, now it's peers are ahead. Atlanta was closer to the top 5 than Houston and DFW in the 90's, now Houston and DFW are closer to the top 5. I disagree with the poster when he says Atlanta is more relevant than it has ever been. It's peak relevance was 1995- 2005. Not that it is not relevant today, it's just that it was Belle of the ball in the 90s.
This is nothing to feel slighted about. Atlanta was ahead of its peers in the 90's, now it's peers are ahead. Atlanta was closer to the top 5 than Houston and DFW in the 90's, now Houston and DFW are closer to the top 5. I disagree with the poster when he says Atlanta is more relevant than it has ever been. It's peak relevance was 1995- 2005. Not that it is not relevant today, it's just that it was Belle of the ball in the 90s.
People take it personal.
And to add, nothing lasts ad infinitum, relevance fluctuates. What is relevant in 2023 may be more or less relevant in 2033, and faster population growth isn't an automatic pass.
Again yall are taking the comment out of context.
One poster said Atlanta is rising to be a top 5 city and U disagreed.
And then I stated that Atlanta is not as close to the top 5 as it was in the 90s. If you take that as declining that is up to you. But a city can gain in population, gdp, whatever, but if other cities prominence is growing faster they will pass it.
The comment should be taken SOLELY in context with becoming a top 5 city. Atlanta is not catching up either NYC, LA, SFBA, DC or Chicago anytime soon in prominence and since the 90s Houston and DFW has leaped frogged Atlanta in prominence so yes, Atlanta has not gotten closer to the top 5, if anything it has moved further away.
Here is the start of the convo, please take it in context:
A place can lose influence without it being declining. Philadelphia metro is growing and at the same time it is losing influence. I would not say that it is declining, other cities just passed it up.
San Antonio is growing faster than Austin but Austin is the one that is more influential.
This is nothing to feel slighted about. Atlanta was ahead of its peers in the 90's, now it's peers are ahead. Atlanta was closer to the top 5 than Houston and DFW in the 90's, now Houston and DFW are closer to the top 5. I disagree with the poster when he says Atlanta is more relevant than it has ever been. It's peak relevance was 1995- 2005. Not that it is not relevant today, it's just that it was Belle of the ball in the 90s.
I just disagree. Relevance is subjective and cultural, and from what I see, Atlanta is more relevant in American culture today than ever, even in the 90s. More people know about Atlanta today, more people live in the area and see it as an actual city today than they did in the 90s, and more music and television come out of Atlanta today than ever. Hell, Atlanta's most popular areas today were industrial cesspools in the 90s.
Again yall are taking the comment out of context.
One poster said Atlanta is rising to be a top 5 city and U disagreed.
And then I stated that Atlanta is not as close to the top 5 as it was in the 90s. If you take that as declining that is up to you. But a city can gain in population, gdp, whatever, but if other cities prominence is growing faster they will pass it.
........
This is nothing to feel slighted about. Atlanta was ahead of its peers in the 90's, now it's peers are ahead. Atlanta was closer to the top 5 than Houston and DFW in the 90's, now Houston and DFW are closer to the top 5. I disagree with the poster when he says Atlanta is more relevant than it has ever been. It's peak relevance was 1995- 2005. Not that it is not relevant today, it's just that it was Belle of the ball in the 90s.
Maybe analogous to Denver? Still definitely growing but part of a region that has other cities that are stealing the spotlight right now.
What does "post-pandemic" have to do with FL's growth? FL is growing so fast because the Boomers began reaching retirement age in 2011 and will continue to flood the state for about another six years. Not sure if immigrants are still coming to FL as fast as they have been for the last 4 decades, but that's another factor that has nothing to do with the pandemic.
Since the pandemic, Florida’s growth has been treated differently. Texas has been the growth darling for awhile now, but Florida was the red-headed stepchild of Sun Belt growth. Sluggish job market that people simply moved to. Since 2020 however Florida has gotten the golden treatment with the media.
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