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Another area that comes to mind is the Southeast Quadrant of Rochester, which has a nice collection of walkable neighborhoods like Park Avenue, South Wedge, Monroe Village, Upper Monroe, Swillburg, Neighborhood of the Arts(NOTA), East Avenue, Highland Park, etc.: https://rocwiki.org/Southeast_Quadrant
SE Rochester is extremely walkable and bikable with great amenities to boot. The etc. in the post above would also include the Winston Village, Cobbs Hill, and Browncroft neighborhoods. Although not as contiguous, some goods pockets of walkability can indeed be found in each of the other 3 quadrants of the city as well.
Another area that comes to mind is the Southeast Quadrant of Rochester, which has a nice collection of walkable neighborhoods like Park Avenue, South Wedge, Monroe Village, Upper Monroe, Swillburg, Neighborhood of the Arts(NOTA), East Avenue, Highland Park, etc.: https://rocwiki.org/Southeast_Quadrant
Rochester is pretty walkable but I think the RTA is sort of disappointing compared to NFTA, ConnDOT or even Centro in Syracuse. Which means I think you end up a bit stuck in your neighborhood
SE Rochester is extremely walkable and bikable with great amenities to boot. The etc. in the post above would also include the Winston Village, Cobbs Hill, and Browncroft neighborhoods. Although not as contiguous, some goods pockets of walkability can indeed be found in each of the other 3 quadrants of the city as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4
Rochester is pretty walkable but I think the RTA is sort of disappointing compared to NFTA, ConnDOT or even Centro in Syracuse. Which means I think you end up a bit stuck in your neighborhood
Yes, the Southeast Quadrant includes a good portion of the city and a range of active and upscale neighborhoods. Park Avenue is a popular area and attracts its share of young professionals. In fact, a sister of mine actually lived in the neighborhood decades ago when she first moved to the area.
Thanks everyone for the ideas. One thing I forgot to put in here was "moderate weather" - oops.
And sorry for the confusion. I certainly don't think a lot of these places on the list have "moderate COL". I included them only to show the kind of vibe I like.
One place I forgot to mention was my old home - Newburyport, MA - which was just about perfect, but grew way too tired of 52" of snow/yr. But the fact there was the train to Boston for more amenities, and world-class health care, had a lot of stuff going on all the time, near the water, extremely safe, puts it at the top of my list. I'd love to find a similar place with better weather. Maybe Annapolis is close.
As to "walkability", everyone defines it differently. When I think of walkability, I think of a place - like Newburyport or Portsmouth, etc. where you can park your car and walk to the library, walk to restaurants, walk to shops, walk to the theatre, walk to the waterfront, walk to doctor's offices, dentists, post office, etc. instead of driving between strip malls. Being from New England I'm just a huge fan of a dense, walkable "core".
I may be wrong, but I hear a place like Raleigh, NC has restaurants and offices, but no shopping to speak of. That to me isn't a well-rounded core.
Curious if any of you know what Sacramento is like. Seems like it might offer a lot and for CA seems not to be too bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macalan
What would you consider the Top 10 most attractive walkable, "human scale", small, mid or large sized cities that have lots of amenities (sports, shopping, restaurants, theatre, etc.), a good economy, relatively safe (not a lot of murders or gun crime), good infrastructure (offer some level of public transit), easy to get around, greenery (trees and parks), moderate COL and have a "personality" and a central "core" (rather than sprawl)?
My favorites I've been to so far:
Denver
San Francisco (was ages ago, so don't know if it's the same)
Boston
DC
NYC
Providence
Annapolis
Portsmouth, NH
Newport, RI
Burlington, VT
Portland, ME
Greenville, SC
My least favorite (for no particular reason, just didn't "click" with me, probably because I didn't spend enough time there):
Minneapolis
Dallas (too big and sprawling)
Louisville
St Louis
Asheville
Philly
Memphis
New Orleans (was lots of fun - once - but never felt entirely safe there)
Savannah (liked it the first time, but safety's an issue and going back it feels gritty)
Could take it or leave it:
Charleston, SC - I live here (not from here) so maybe I'm jaded. It's ok for what it is. A bit limiting. Safety has gotten worse, nice for a day trip sometimes and great architecture and walkability)
Yea, it's a pretty common trip, but I didn't think that many people stopped in Portsmouth. It's definitely cute and walkable for at least a decent bit of its downtown core.
When I lived in MA we almost always stopped for lunch in Portsmouth en route to Maine. It was a good halfway point, easy to get in/out of, is very pretty, and has a strong dining scene. Pretty much perfect for that kinda thing. I've been there many times, but literally couldn't tell you what it's like at night as I've always just popped in for lunch (last time being at their outpost of Row 34, which is always great).
You should give Philadelphia another chance; it's well known for most of the criteria on your list. The really narrow streets make for a very human scale experience. A few of the other cities on your list don't really excel in the COL area, like Boston, DC, San Francisco and NYC. For small cities I'd throw Lancaster PA in the mix; very compact and walkable with a lot to do for a city that size. Buffalo is a nice one too, though much more car oriented. There are many walkable neighborhoods though.
Thanks! Maybe a Philly suburb. I used to live in Allentown (not a huge fan) and remember liking Doylestown, West Chester and Bethlehem. I have no idea what they are like now, as that was over 30 years ago, and I know they are not cities.
I tried to edit my post but couldn't. I know that most of the places I listed are high COL. What I was looking for was places that had the same sort of vibe but with a moderate COL.
I am intrigued by Lancaster (I know I much have gone there when I lived in Allentown but don't remember it), albeit for two things. The winters (which is why we left Newburyport, MA) and moreso the high violent crime rate (murders). According to an article I read, they have been having meetings because violent crime has increased 27% since 2019. The article also stated that PA has the most violent crime of any state in the country, which surprised me.
If Lancaster can get their crime under control it might be a strong contender. It looks like just the type of place we like - vibrant walkable downtown, things to do, countryside around but close enough to major cities. Those aspects remind me of Newburyport which are important to me, and a plus is that it has a good hospital.
I'd second both skintreesnail's recommendation that you give Philly a second chance and his endorsement of Lancaster.
That city is about the same size as Portland, ME, but less touristy, even though it sits in the middle of Amish country, which attracts a non-trivial number of tourists. It has outstanding arts, culture and dining scenes.
But maybe one more interesting thing about it, in light of Duderino's comment about the small New England cities above, is that it too is also a retirement haven. I've learned this from this operator of senior living communities based in the southern Lancaster suburb of Willow Street (yes, that's the name of a borough). It's building a 20-story 55+ residential tower in the middle of decidedly low-rise downtown Lancaster (I think it will be the tallest building in the city when completed), and the company desperately wants me to write about it (Lancaster lies outside Phillymag's primary circulation area, but if/when we next get around to featuring Lancaster as a vacation getaway, I may get a chance to grant the company its wish). Publicity Willow Valley has sent me touts Lancaster County as the #1 place to retire in the country; I haven't bothered to independently verify this yet.
No matter. I'm a huge Lancaster fan. It belongs on this list for sure.
I checked out Lancaster and I'm very intrigued by it. It seems to have a lot going for it. I'm trying to remember if I ever visited, as I lived in Allentown for a short time @ 30 years ago. I remember Doylestown and Bethlehem and liking the compactness of those towns, and also recently visited West Chester and liked that as well, so bet I'd like Lancaster.
Two things give me pause though. One more than the other. The winters - which is one reason we left Newburyport, MA which we adored. We just got sick of 53" of snow a year and living half our life inside during the winter not to mention the shoveling and driving as we got older. I know that Lancaster's winters aren't nearly as bad, so it's not a deal breaker.
The more troubling aspect of Lancaster is the violent crime rate. Almost double the national average. I read an article about the meetings the city is having trying to stem the violent crime, which has risen 27% since 2019. There seems to be a problem with lack of local police, but it's more than that. The article said that PA has the highest violent crime rate in the country which is very surprising to me. I never felt unsafe when I lived there.
Lancaster appears to have so much going for it - the downtown area looks great, I love the farmland around it, and love that it's near enough to Philly, Baltimore and NYC. That's a huge plus as is the fact that it has a decent hospital in the city itself as well as a reasonable COL. Those things all remind me a lot of Newburyport. It's just the violent crime rate (which was detailed as murders).
Worth a look though, and I'm putting it on the list. I hope that they can turn around their crime problem and what sounds like a great little city doesn't go the way of Baltimore.
I checked out Lancaster and I'm very intrigued by it. It seems to have a lot going for it. I'm trying to remember if I ever visited, as I lived in Allentown for a short time @ 30 years ago. I remember Doylestown and Bethlehem and liking the compactness of those towns, and also recently visited West Chester and liked that as well, so bet I'd like Lancaster.
Two things give me pause though. One more than the other. The winters - which is one reason we left Newburyport, MA which we adored. We just got sick of 53" of snow a year and living half our life inside during the winter not to mention the shoveling and driving as we got older. I know that Lancaster's winters aren't nearly as bad, so it's not a deal breaker.
The more troubling aspect of Lancaster is the violent crime rate. Almost double the national average. I read an article about the meetings the city is having trying to stem the violent crime, which has risen 27% since 2019. There seems to be a problem with lack of local police, but it's more than that. The article said that PA has the highest violent crime rate in the country which is very surprising to me. I never felt unsafe when I lived there.
Lancaster appears to have so much going for it - the downtown area looks great, I love the farmland around it, and love that it's near enough to Philly, Baltimore and NYC. That's a huge plus as is the fact that it has a decent hospital in the city itself(*) as well as a reasonable COL. Those things all remind me a lot of Newburyport. It's just the violent crime rate (which was detailed as murders).
Worth a look though, and I'm putting it on the list. I hope that they can turn around their crime problem and what sounds like a great little city doesn't go the way of Baltimore.
*run by the University of Pennsylvania Health System (Penn Medicine)
Penn Medicine and Pittsburgh-based UPMC (University of Pittsburgh Medical Center) are the two 800-pound gorillas of healthcare in the Keystone State. The latter runs one of the only Medicaid HMOs that operates statewide, and the former has the biggest network of hospitals in Southeastern Pennsylvania, stretching into Central and Southern New Jersey as well.
You will definitely be well cared for at Lancaster General Hospital should something unfortunate happen to you while strolling around downtown Lancaster. However, my experience walking around downtown Lancaster after dark has been nothing but positive. Generally speaking, violent crime tends to occur mainly in the poorer parts of cities; it's news when something violent happens in the city center or a more affluent section. (This is not to say that it's not news when it happens where it usually happens. But those stories tend to get buried on an inside page of the paper or reported later in the newscast while the incident in the wealthy neighborhood/city center gets front-page/top-of-program treatment.)
I hope not only Lancaster but also Philadelphia, where I live, gets a handle on the violent crime problem. But I wouldn't rule out either because of it, and it sounds like you aren't doing that, either.
—MSE, whose life is also worth Penn Medicine (I signed up with a Penn doctor when I worked there and have kept him since)
The more troubling aspect of Lancaster is the violent crime rate. Almost double the national average. I read an article about the meetings the city is having trying to stem the violent crime, which has risen 27% since 2019. There seems to be a problem with lack of local police, but it's more than that. The article said that PA has the highest violent crime rate in the country which is very surprising to me. I never felt unsafe when I lived there.
Well, I can understand how statistics appear hyper-locally, but one thing is for certain: Pennsylvania's overall violent crime rate is middling, at worst (despite having admittedly glaring issues with concentrated violent crime in some of its most challenged inner-city neighborhoods).
I'm not sure what article stated otherwise, but PA is factually nowhere close to having the "highest" rate. According to this ranking of violent crime rates (highest to lowest), Pennsylvania's is 29th (for comparison, MA actually ranks a little ahead of it, at 26th):
1. Nearly every city across the US did experience a crime spike following the many tumultuous events of 2020; crime still remains a bit elevated in most places since 2019, but there are solid signs of widespread improvements in recent months.
2. Crime statistics are very easy to over-extrapolate. However, "random" violent crime is very uncommon, even in the most crime-prone cities. Domestic violence, drug trade, "turf" wars, etc. make up the vast, vast majority of instances. That's not to say that crime is not very serious and should always be addressed for justice and the "social order," but the reality is that crime is VERY uneven in who it impacts, especially based on race and income.
Now to follow-up with a positive topic; aside from proximity to big cities and the great core of Lancaster itself, since it seems like it would be of interest to you, a really awesome feature of the broader South-central/Southeastern PA region is it's chock full of "solid" and well-preserved downtowns to explore. It's very reminiscent of New England in that regard.
Here's a sampling of just the immediate Lancaster area:
Well, I can understand how statistics appear hyper-locally, but one thing is for certain: Pennsylvania's overall violent crime rate is middling, at worst (despite having admittedly glaring issues with concentrated violent crime in some of its most challenged inner-city neighborhoods).
I'm not sure what article stated otherwise, but PA is factually nowhere close to having the "highest" rate. According to this ranking of violent crime rates (highest to lowest), Pennsylvania's is 29th (for comparison, MA actually ranks a little ahead of it, at 26th):
1. Nearly every city across the US did experience a crime spike following the many tumultuous events of 2020; crime still remains a bit elevated in most places since 2019, but there are solid signs of widespread improvements in recent months.
2. Crime statistics are very easy to over-extrapolate. However, "random" violent crime is very uncommon, even in the most crime-prone cities. Domestic violence, drug trade, "turf" wars, etc. make up the vast, vast majority of instances. That's not to say that crime is not very serious and should always be addressed for justice and the "social order," but the reality is that crime is VERY uneven in who it impacts, especially based on race and income.
Yea that is simply incorrect. PA is nowhere near the top of the list for violent crime rates.
Of the OPs "favorite" walk-able cities... the bold have equal or higher violent crime rates than Lancaster.
Denver
San Fran
Boston DC
NYC
Providence
Annapolis
Portsmouth
Newport
Burlington
Portland, ME Greenville, SC
Controversial, but I don't think anyone should write off a city based on "crime statistics", some of which are factually inaccurate. As you said, random crime is a rare occurrence especially in parts of cities that tourists generally frequent. Also, the OP has never visited Lancaster and hasn't been to Allentown in 30 years, places change...
And for what it's worth, I visited Lancaster last fall for the first time in 10 years and enjoyed myself. The city is small, but there are great places to eat, the famer's market is fun, and several nice art galleries and antique shops.
Last edited by cpomp; 07-14-2023 at 08:53 AM..
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Thanks for all the Replies!
