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View Poll Results: Most Urban Tier I Midsize Cities?
Birmingham 3 4.05%
Buffalo 16 21.62%
Grand Rapids 5 6.76%
Hartford 5 6.76%
Louisville 7 9.46%
Milwaukee 31 41.89%
New Orleans 38 51.35%
Norfolk 3 4.05%
Providence 19 25.68%
Richmond 13 17.57%
Rochester 5 6.76%
Salt Lake 4 5.41%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-15-2023, 05:56 AM
 
457 posts, read 349,264 times
Reputation: 1462

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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Do you have an outline on what would be considered Core Grand Rapids?


I am not a Grand Rapids expert, but I'd roughly put the core like this^. It's not a perfect definition, there's some SFH development in these borders, and some more dense development outside of them. But I'd roughly define the core as Wealthy St. to the south, Leonard St to the north, College Avenue to the east, and Lexington/Seward Ave. in the west. This is at least where I see most of the medium to high density infill projects near the core. If you're looking for a more immediate "downtown" boundary let me know.

Perhaps one of the Grand Rapids folks can give a better definition.
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Old 10-15-2023, 06:35 AM
 
93,232 posts, read 123,842,121 times
Reputation: 18258
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketSci View Post
Buffalo's core urban stretch begins downtown and fans out to the north up to the city limits, but there are dense (>10k) neighborhoods in all parts of the city with the exception of industrial stretches south of the Buffalo River, along the lakeshore, and along railroad corridors, primarily on the East Side.

Just the immediate few neighborhoods, starting downtown and fanning out to the north, and staying south of Delaware Park:

Downtown
https://goo.gl/maps/m2w6eMFes6jVvSNg8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5DvPPNUC2e1tWzbg8
https://goo.gl/maps/z3vRZj1cwMHN8PHo6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Xr837g3kNS8CUAMP6


Medical Center/Fruit Belt
https://maps.app.goo.gl/uk369wBNdwfs58J29
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fMCDfxrqwwVV3yB8A
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Hmy9iTLQ6zcupk3b6

Lower West Side
https://goo.gl/maps/2BfWLk99yEhdUUtG6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/oNL4HffD5q5H1VG48

Allentown
https://goo.gl/maps/rAcCwxkeYuwiBxUe7
https://goo.gl/maps/RWzSRpbCvPqQbqot7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/X6ieTyKHpfZ7TBFn8
https://goo.gl/maps/WGBd7smwwqhbHipy6

Columbus/Lower West Side
https://maps.app.goo.gl/YC9ZZK3GjMjnNYvD9
https://goo.gl/maps/Mop4qYgmhdyKQA5X6
https://goo.gl/maps/WcEi6Pf1dzpK9MUZ6

Bryant
https://goo.gl/maps/WJHm8yGPLWb3hL5bA
https://goo.gl/maps/jsTrow9W1MEgCqnn7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/GhyMkJEKhMuLAjd49

Delaware District
https://maps.app.goo.gl/z6FBgQ3PKrFWhNVJ9
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ftvVWCxUraBb4c9r7

West Side
https://goo.gl/maps/3Xypz2uUz6NDVP5F9
https://goo.gl/maps/etRt8s58nDj6w1GD7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/LLdyMRSSyVotjuFDA

Elmwood Village
https://goo.gl/maps/duLi3vnN9PWEWCWa6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/baiGywEmecrp6BbG8

Grant-Ferry
https://goo.gl/maps/meTnAzoYCX6q1oyp6
https://goo.gl/maps/HJCi8s28RnVj9EAg8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/o1Q2p7h3n2cx9ELW6

There are multiple other neighborhoods of over 10k density that retain "urban" fabric that are not fully contiguous or adjacent to the "core" neighborhoods:

North Park/North Buffalo
https://goo.gl/maps/r5hJ5MuxEySQsS5j6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/K76cV2Q2VeAGHc6dA
https://goo.gl/maps/Qza5VomBdBCgAfST9
https://maps.app.goo.gl/GVJnd1nvJQKoR6JG7

South Buffalo
https://goo.gl/maps/Npi5aTNn1zXPXkYQ9
https://goo.gl/maps/4ou3RGjPbXfxcVLd7
https://goo.gl/maps/wMnutZfe2FL5dsKd9

Black Rock
https://goo.gl/maps/tR53eavhKHWXUveL6
https://goo.gl/maps/9QgiXWreAvmvijGj8
https://goo.gl/maps/1Mzpx5zhmygk2Smq9
https://goo.gl/maps/izJPpsRP18nUcHQx7

University/Lasalle
https://goo.gl/maps/XbxJJv5zXcLaDbWi6
https://goo.gl/maps/3984mTctyCX2Gnmm6
https://goo.gl/maps/rChBm2oE8cbJQBKi7

Cold Spring
https://goo.gl/maps/BgmsX2f5ToScqE7k9
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ySKghEDLyHzD9aFs8

MLK Park
https://goo.gl/maps/DtUGqqidWZVytU456

Lovejoy
https://goo.gl/maps/CTdind8B8VXpg2GD8

Broadway-Fillmore
https://goo.gl/maps/TnWPpLEkU6wMPdNQ6

+ + more
What makes Buffalo interesting is that the density that runs from Downtown to the north through the city spills over into Kenmore/the town of Tonawanda, where Kenmore and select block groups/census tracts in the town of Tonawanda are around/above 10k per square mile. Kenmore itself has a little over 15,000 people in 1.44 square miles and has Elmwood and Delaware Avenues running through it, which connects it with Buffalo neighborhoods/areas like Elmwood Village, Allentown, North Buffalo(Hertel Avenue) and the Delaware District. So, this more dense concentration goes into the suburbs as well.
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Old 10-15-2023, 10:12 AM
 
Location: North Raleigh x North Sacramento
5,819 posts, read 5,622,386 times
Reputation: 7118
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketSci View Post
Buffalo's core urban stretch begins downtown and fans out to the north up to the city limits, but there are dense (>10k) neighborhoods in all parts of the city with the exception of industrial stretches south of the Buffalo River, along the lakeshore, and along railroad corridors, primarily on the East Side.

Just the immediate few neighborhoods, starting downtown and fanning out to the north, and staying south of Delaware Park:

Downtown
https://goo.gl/maps/m2w6eMFes6jVvSNg8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5DvPPNUC2e1tWzbg8
https://goo.gl/maps/z3vRZj1cwMHN8PHo6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Xr837g3kNS8CUAMP6


Medical Center/Fruit Belt
https://maps.app.goo.gl/uk369wBNdwfs58J29
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fMCDfxrqwwVV3yB8A
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Hmy9iTLQ6zcupk3b6

Lower West Side
https://goo.gl/maps/2BfWLk99yEhdUUtG6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/oNL4HffD5q5H1VG48

Allentown
https://goo.gl/maps/rAcCwxkeYuwiBxUe7
https://goo.gl/maps/RWzSRpbCvPqQbqot7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/X6ieTyKHpfZ7TBFn8
https://goo.gl/maps/WGBd7smwwqhbHipy6

Columbus/Lower West Side
https://maps.app.goo.gl/YC9ZZK3GjMjnNYvD9
https://goo.gl/maps/Mop4qYgmhdyKQA5X6
https://goo.gl/maps/WcEi6Pf1dzpK9MUZ6

Bryant
https://goo.gl/maps/WJHm8yGPLWb3hL5bA
https://goo.gl/maps/jsTrow9W1MEgCqnn7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/GhyMkJEKhMuLAjd49

Delaware District
https://maps.app.goo.gl/z6FBgQ3PKrFWhNVJ9
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ftvVWCxUraBb4c9r7

West Side
https://goo.gl/maps/3Xypz2uUz6NDVP5F9
https://goo.gl/maps/etRt8s58nDj6w1GD7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/LLdyMRSSyVotjuFDA

Elmwood Village
https://goo.gl/maps/duLi3vnN9PWEWCWa6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/baiGywEmecrp6BbG8

Grant-Ferry
https://goo.gl/maps/meTnAzoYCX6q1oyp6
https://goo.gl/maps/HJCi8s28RnVj9EAg8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/o1Q2p7h3n2cx9ELW6

There are multiple other neighborhoods of over 10k density that retain "urban" fabric that are not fully contiguous or adjacent to the "core" neighborhoods:

North Park/North Buffalo
https://goo.gl/maps/r5hJ5MuxEySQsS5j6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/K76cV2Q2VeAGHc6dA
https://goo.gl/maps/Qza5VomBdBCgAfST9
https://maps.app.goo.gl/GVJnd1nvJQKoR6JG7

South Buffalo
https://goo.gl/maps/Npi5aTNn1zXPXkYQ9
https://goo.gl/maps/4ou3RGjPbXfxcVLd7
https://goo.gl/maps/wMnutZfe2FL5dsKd9

Black Rock
https://goo.gl/maps/tR53eavhKHWXUveL6
https://goo.gl/maps/9QgiXWreAvmvijGj8
https://goo.gl/maps/1Mzpx5zhmygk2Smq9
https://goo.gl/maps/izJPpsRP18nUcHQx7

University/Lasalle
https://goo.gl/maps/XbxJJv5zXcLaDbWi6
https://goo.gl/maps/3984mTctyCX2Gnmm6
https://goo.gl/maps/rChBm2oE8cbJQBKi7

Cold Spring
https://goo.gl/maps/BgmsX2f5ToScqE7k9
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ySKghEDLyHzD9aFs8

MLK Park
https://goo.gl/maps/DtUGqqidWZVytU456

Lovejoy
https://goo.gl/maps/CTdind8B8VXpg2GD8

Broadway-Fillmore
https://goo.gl/maps/TnWPpLEkU6wMPdNQ6

+ + more
Good looking out!

Based off what you said above, I defined Buffalo's core between the Niagara River and Kensington Freeway west to east, and from Downtown north to 198...

In this area Buffalo has a population of 79,439 in 8.9 square miles of land, for a population density of 8926 ppsm...
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Old 10-19-2023, 07:02 AM
 
Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,452 posts, read 44,061,014 times
Reputation: 16804
Add 'livable' to the term 'urban core' and the rankings change considerably.
Under that criteria Grand Rapids would top the list.
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Old 10-19-2023, 07:40 AM
 
160 posts, read 87,240 times
Reputation: 227
They are going to vary. A city of a few hundred thousand people in 1940 is going to have a a much broader urban core and bones than one that was 50-100,000 then and sprawled post war.
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Old 10-19-2023, 07:55 AM
 
5,016 posts, read 3,912,172 times
Reputation: 4528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconographer View Post
Add 'livable' to the term 'urban core' and the rankings change considerably.
Under that criteria Grand Rapids would top the list.
Not that I disagree, but why Grand Rapids vs. some others on this list?
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Old 10-22-2023, 07:10 AM
 
Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,452 posts, read 44,061,014 times
Reputation: 16804
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwj119 View Post
Not that I disagree, but why Grand Rapids vs. some others on this list?
IMO what makes GR a standout is a long-standing and concerted effort on behalf of individual and corporate citizens (Steelcase, the DeVos family, Bissell. Universal Forest, et al) to focus on QOL issues within the community. Spend a couple of days there and you'll see what I mean.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Rapids,_Michigan

And admittedly, I'm a pushover for any town with a really great bookstore.

https://www.schulerbooks.com/about-grand-rapids
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Old 10-22-2023, 12:20 PM
 
37,877 posts, read 41,910,477 times
Reputation: 27274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconographer View Post
IMO what makes GR a standout is a long-standing and concerted effort on behalf of individual and corporate citizens (Steelcase, the DeVos family, Bissell. Universal Forest, et al) to focus on QOL issues within the community. Spend a couple of days there and you'll see what I mean.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Rapids,_Michigan

And admittedly, I'm a pushover for any town with a really great bookstore.

https://www.schulerbooks.com/about-grand-rapids
From what I've heard, Omaha (which isn't listed on the poll but is a peer of the cities listed) would probably give Grand Rapids a run for its money in that department.
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Old 10-23-2023, 09:43 AM
 
Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,452 posts, read 44,061,014 times
Reputation: 16804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
From what I've heard, Omaha (which isn't listed on the poll but is a peer of the cities listed) would probably give Grand Rapids a run for its money in that department.
I've heard the same. Decidedly underrated IMO.
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Old 11-22-2023, 11:20 AM
Status: "See My Blog Entries for my Top 500 Most Important USA Cities" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Harrisburg, PA
1,051 posts, read 976,625 times
Reputation: 1406
Here is my ranking (spaces indicate groupings):

1. Milwaukee
2. New Orleans
3. Providence
4. Buffalo

5. Hartford
6. Richmond
7. Louisville
8. Rochester
9. Grand Rapids

10. Salt Lake City
11. Norfolk
12. Birmingham

Sources: I have only been in downtown Louisville (in 2004) and Richmond (in 2022). Granted that puts Louisville at an almost 20-year disadvantage. Still, Richmond definitely felt larger scale, and more urban/walkable. Then again, the two cities were remarkably similar in many regards.

Last edited by g500; 11-22-2023 at 12:18 PM..
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