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Politically Baltimore and Washington are northern cities but geographically they're in the south. Just like California is definitely the south geographically but politically it's the north pole. Usually when people talk about south and north they are talking politics and religion but I talk about geography mostly.
Geographically is only because of the Mason-Dixon line, which was never meant to divide the North & South to begin with...at least the Maryland-Pennsylvania border wasn't...it was to establish property lines. I don't count the Maryland-Pennsylvania border as the true boundary between North and South because it really doesn't accurately divide dialect, culture etc. The real "Mason-Dixon line" is south of Washington D.C...it roughly follows U.S. 50 to the Ohio River, then roughly picks up U.S. 60 in Missouri west of where the Ohio flows into the Mississippi. Culturally and politically is what counts, not geography. Geography doesn't mean jack unless it has other coinciding factors with it.
Yeah Harris County, Texas would be a northern county too. Obama won Houston and Harris County in 2008. Obama won just about all the big cities in Texas in 2008. Almost all the small cities and small towns went to McCain. Almost all large cities in Texas went to Obama. Even in Texas the big cities are pretty liberal. A lot of people seem to think conservative is southern and liberal is northern. I usually look at the geography. Whether a place is liberal or conservative if it's in the south then it's the south. Most people don't call California the south because it's a big liberal state. I don't care how liberal California is, it's the south.
Harris County northern but not California...now that is NUTS. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Politics is in no way a good form of identifying regions. Culture, dialect, and history are by far the best factors, not to mention demographics. Geography and politics are pretty poor definitions by themselves. California is NOT a Southern state. It is on the Pacific Coast...it has no Southern culture, no Southern dialect...NOTHING is southern about it except maybe its weather and latitude. California being a Southern state is the biggest joke I've ever heard in my life. You even contradict your own definition of Harris County being northern because it falls well to the south of any line you could possibly use to split the country. You should probably consider piping down before you cause me to fall out of my chair laughing at your logic.
Houston did not seem very southern. Downtown Houston looked like downtown LA and, in general, I heard very few southern dialects and saw no cowboys. The climate and general terrain reminded me alot of Tampa.
Yeah Harris County, Texas would be a northern county too. Obama won Houston and Harris County in 2008. Obama won just about all the big cities in Texas in 2008. Almost all the small cities and small towns went to McCain. Almost all large cities in Texas went to Obama. Even in Texas the big cities are pretty liberal. A lot of people seem to think conservative is southern and liberal is northern. I usually look at the geography. Whether a place is liberal or conservative if it's in the south then it's the south. Most people don't call California the south because it's a big liberal state. I don't care how liberal California is, it's the south.
Cities tend to be liberal and rural areas tend to be conservative. This is true regardless of region. Northern Maine is more conservative than Houston, for example.
Cities tend to be liberal and rural areas tend to be conservative. This is true regardless of region. Northern Maine is more conservative than Houston, for example.
I agree...but they are still part of the region in which they are geographically located. The point is, a more liberal/densely populated/fast paced/etc. area CAN be considered southern. Those qualities are found in many areas thoughout the South.
Cities tend to be liberal and rural areas tend to be conservative. This is true regardless of region. Northern Maine is more conservative than Houston, for example.
This is only true to an extent. There are some rural Massachusetts counties that are more Liberal than any urban counties in Texas, for example. There are cultural differences from region to region that make cities and rural areas more or less liberal or conservative than cities and rural areas in other places.
Houston did not seem very southern. Downtown Houston looked like downtown LA and, in general, I heard very few southern dialects and saw no cowboys. The climate and general terrain reminded me alot of Tampa.
I heard a lot of Southern dialect down there when I was there, if you didn't hear it you are not listening hard enough. Houston is a big city like L.A., but it reminds me far more of Atlanta than Los Angeles. Culturally Houston also leans more Southern. Just because two downtowns look alike doesn't mean they belong in the same region. You hear the Southern accent less in Houston likely because of the many Hispanics living there.
Geographically is only because of the Mason-Dixon line, which was never meant to divide the North & South to begin with...at least the Maryland-Pennsylvania border wasn't...it was to establish property lines. I don't count the Maryland-Pennsylvania border as the true boundary between North and South because it really doesn't accurately divide dialect, culture etc. The real "Mason-Dixon line" is south of Washington D.C...it roughly follows U.S. 50 to the Ohio River, then roughly picks up U.S. 60 in Missouri west of where the Ohio flows into the Mississippi. Culturally and politically is what counts, not geography. Geography doesn't mean jack unless it has other coinciding factors with it.
I agree with you in principle, but disagree with you on the boundary. I think I-70 is a much more accurate line of where the Southern influence starts than the Ohio River. You probably don't notice it since you live there, but I can notice a definite Southern speech pattern just south of Columbus, Indianapolis, and St. Louis. By the time you get to the Ohio River, it's a full-on Southern drawl. Those areas also tend to be more conservative than the true Midwest. Areas between I-70 and the Ohio River may not be fully Southern, but they aren't fully Midwestern either. They are a transition zone, and I tend to classify them with the South. Someone from Mississippi may disagree.
Cities like Bloomington, IN, Evansville, Cincinnati and Springfield, MO have far more in common with Upper South cities like Louisville, Richmond, and Nashville than they do with truly Midwestern cities like Detroit, Minneapolis, Fargo, Grand Rapids, or Green Bay.
I heard a lot of Southern dialect down there when I was there, if you didn't hear it you are not listening hard enough. Houston is a big city like L.A., but it reminds me far more of Atlanta than Los Angeles. Culturally Houston also leans more Southern. Just because two downtowns look alike doesn't mean they belong in the same region. You hear the Southern accent less in Houston likely because of the many Hispanics living there.
I have to admit that I spent most of my time in the Downtown area there and did not have much in the way of exposure to people in the outlying areas. That could certainly account for the lack of southern dialect that I heard. I agree that Houston is a southern town and it's definitely not LA. I was just trying to say that it seemed less southern than alot of other major cities that i have been to in the South and the downtown area was ridiculously huge. Coming in from Hobby Airport reminded me alot of Tampa in terms of the flat terrain, hot and humid weather, palm trees, cheezy billboards and signs, and rather dirty neighborhoods along the sides of the interstate.
I have to admit that I spent most of my time in the Downtown area there and did not have much in the way of exposure to people in the outlying areas. That could certainly account for the lack of southern dialect that I heard. I agree that Houston is a southern town and it's definitely not LA. I was just trying to say that it seemed less southern than alot of other major cities that i have been to in the South and the downtown area was ridiculously huge. Coming in from Hobby Airport reminded me alot of Tampa in terms of the flat terrain, hot and humid weather, palm trees, cheezy billboards and signs, and rather dirty neighborhoods along the sides of the interstate.
flat terrain, hot and humid weather, and plam trees are all normal in the south.
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