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strangely enough, lebanon kansas has a latitude of 39º 48' while the mason dixon line has a latitude of 39º 43'. so actually maryland's northern border is in the southern half of the USA by about 10 miles
Last edited by JimmyJohnWilson; 09-17-2010 at 12:48 PM..
strangely enough, lebanon kansas has a latitude of 39º 48' while the mason dixon line has a latitude of 39º 43'. so actually maryland's northern border is in the southern half of the USA by about 10 miles
Bingo! You're right on the money. I was just about to say this to Mr. Redd. I heard the geographical center was 39 degrees 50 minutes but this is close enough. You're exactly right. The whole entire state of MD is less than 39 degrees 50 minutes. The Mason-Dixon line is less than 39 degrees 50 minutes so the very southern part of PA is even in the south. So not only did the Mason-Dixon line divide the slave states from the non-slave states but it was also very close to the geographical division between the northern U.S. and the southern U.S. This proves my point that California, Kansas and Maryland are all in the south geographically. All three of these states either in their entirety or almost in their entirety are in the southern half of the U.S. So they are southern states geographically speaking. I'm not talking about culture whatsoever. I'm strictly speaking geography.
Culturally California is about as far as you can possibly get from a southern state but they both share the low latitudes.
Mr. Redd,
One of the mistakes you made in terms of geography is you're strictly looking at the length of the eastern coastline. When trying to determine north from south you need to look at the whole continental U.S. Minnesota goes further north than Maine does. So you can't just look at the east coast. You have to look how far north and south the whole continental U.S. goes.
Bingo! You're right on the money. I was just about to say this to Mr. Redd. I heard the geographical center was 39 degrees 50 minutes but this is close enough. You're exactly right. The whole entire state of MD is less than 39 degrees 50 minutes. The Mason-Dixon line is less than 39 degrees 50 minutes so the very southern part of PA is even in the south. So not only did the Mason-Dixon line divide the slave states from the non-slave states but it was also very close to the geographical division between the northern U.S. and the southern U.S. This proves my point that California, Kansas and Maryland are all in the south geographically. All three of these states either in their entirety or almost in their entirety are in the southern half of the U.S. So they are southern states geographically speaking. I'm not talking about culture whatsoever. I'm strictly speaking geography.
Culturally California is about as far as you can possibly get from a southern state but they both share the low latitudes.
Mr. Redd,
One of the mistakes you made in terms of geography is you're strictly looking at the length of the eastern coastline. When trying to determine north from south you need to look at the whole continental U.S. Minnesota goes further north than Maine does. So you can't just look at the east coast. You have to look how far north and south the whole continental U.S. goes.
My point was that official gov't agencies determined the boundries of the south. Maryland is always included in the south according to the census and according to mason-dixon. California is not in it. As well as New Mexico or Illinois. The definition of the south has Maryland it. The north does not. California is in the west not the south: it is offical. The unoffical regions of the southeast and mid-atlantic may appeal more to modern perceptions.
However nobody answered my original question. What makes a place less southern? How is Maryland, Miami, and Nova less southern than Atlanta, Houston, and Dallas?
MD and NOVA seem a little less southern than Houston, Dallas and Atlanta to me because they revolve around Washington. Washington D.C. is the heart of MD and NOVA. That whole area revolves around the federal government. So that environment is going to make it seem less southern. I've never been to Miami so I'm just judging it from what I've seen on TV. It looks like a tropical paradise so it just doesn't fit the stereotypical definition of the south that I have in my head. The thought of Houston, Dallas and Atlanta just seem a little more like that stereotypical definition to me.
MD and NOVA seem a little less southern than Houston, Dallas and Atlanta to me because they revolve around Washington. Washington D.C. is the heart of MD and NOVA. That whole area revolves around the federal government. So that environment is going to make it seem less southern. I've never been to Miami so I'm just judging it from what I've seen on TV. It looks like a tropical paradise so it just doesn't fit the stereotypical definition of the south that I have in my head. The thought of Houston, Dallas and Atlanta just seem a little more like that stereotypical definition to me.
Ok Washington DC is definetly, legally, and factually in the south. Just check this out
"James Madison, writing in the Federalist No. 43, also argued that the national capital needed to be distinct from the states, in order to provide for its own maintenance and safety.[13] The Constitution, however, does not select a specific site for the location of the new District. Proposals from the legislatures of Maryland, New Jersey, New York, and Virginia all offered territory for the location of the national capital. Northern states preferred a capital located in one of the nation's prominent cities, unsurprisingly, almost all of which were in the north. Conversely, Southern states preferred that the capital be located closer to their agricultural and slave-holding interests.[14] The selection of the area around the Potomac River for the new national capital was agreed upon between James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, and Alexander Hamilton. Hamilton had a proposal for the new federal government to take over debts accrued by the states during the Revolutionary War. However, by 1790, Southern states had largely repaid their overseas debts. Hamilton's proposal would effectively mean that Southern states would be forced to assume a share of Northern debt. Jefferson and Madison agreed to this proposal but in return lobbied for a federal capital located in the South.[15]"
Therefore Maryland and Virginia should seem more southern. Since DC is the heart of Maryland and Virginia, right?... and it is the only city that is legally southern. Savannah is a tropical paradise like Miami and it's whole economy is based on selling southern history. So how does being a tropical paradise not make a place southern? Like I said before culture is something that comes out of a region it does not define it. All these places make up the south in different ways. The census is the only way to define a region with leading to sterotypes.
strangely enough, lebanon kansas has a latitude of 39º 48' while the mason dixon line has a latitude of 39º 43'. so actually maryland's northern border is in the southern half of the USA by about 10 miles
Actually, you are incorrect. The geographical center of the United States is 20 miles south of Belle Fourche, South Dakota.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRedd
Using geograpy in its strictest form would place MD in the North. Also, going strictly by the mason-dixon line, a portion of West Virginia is north, and 1/4 of New Jersey sit below it; Atlantic city is due east of Baltimore. That is why I think the Mason- Dixon line is useless when determining North and South, and the Census use the M-D line as a distinction. To me Maryland just does not feel like the south. If u ask people from MD they will tell u that they arent southern.
I agree entirely. In fact I've presented this same argument to others in the past.
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