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I would gather that's because NYC receives the commuting population necessary for Trenton to be included into its NYC CMSA/MSA (given their percentage definitions) irregardless of proximity. In comparison, the commuting numbers between Trenton and Philadelphia aren't quite there yet for the two cities to be considered "linked."
It isn't enough for cities to be near one another, they need to contribute to one another a certain percentage of their respective work forces, below which they are not sufficiently interlinked for incorporation.
Go to the New jersey board. Ask them if Trenton is considered Philadlephia or NYC. 80% of Mercer Countys population is in Philadelphias urbanized area.Trenton and Philadelphia have been linked together for 300 years, you are misguided if you believe more people commute between Trenton/NYC as opposed to Trenton/Philly.
The designation has nothing to do with commuter patterns, its more to do with stature. NYC has a higher cost of living allowance compared to Philly thus Mercer County decided to switch allegiances in 2000. The cmsas are extremely ambiguous and misleading. Any sincere New Yorker would tell you the Poconos, Mercer,Hunterdon counties should not be part f NYCs cmsa. Its a joke.
Good job Houston. Here is the GDP Per Capita (posted at another forum):
San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA $80,632.78
Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV $73,859.16
San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA $72,715.58
Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX $70,389.65
Charlotte-Gastonia-Concord, NC-SC $69,544.05
New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY $66,549.66
Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH $66,239.09
Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA $65,406.05
Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX $60,295.66
Denver-Aurora-Broomfield, CO $60,164.54
Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI $60,047.78
Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD $56,846.56
San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA $56,421.51
Los Angeles-Long Beach Santa Ana, CA $55,767.48
Chicago-Naperville-Joliet, IL-IN-WI $54,408.83
Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton, OR-WA $50,927.26
Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA $50,183.17
Baltimore-Towson, MD $49,871.08
Pittsburgh, PA $48,786.74
Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL $48,250.05
St. Louis, MO-IL $45,608.88
Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI $45,390.06
Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ $43,772.87
Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL $40,424.16
Riverside-San Bernadino-Ontario, CA $27,474.14
80% of Mercer Countys population is in Philadelphias urbanized area.
It is also 100% part of the NYC metropolitan area.
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Trenton and Philadelphia have been linked together for 300 years, you are misguided if you believe more people commute between Trenton/NYC as opposed to Trenton/Philly.
I am misguided? Where is the evidence to support your implication here?
I am not from Trenton but I understand times change and so do commuting patterns.
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The designation has nothing to do with commuter patterns, its more to do with stature.
Although I don't claim expertise in Trenton or Mercer County, according to wikipedia, it had a lot to do with commuting patterns:
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Mercer County, New Jersey, while part of the New York Metropolitan Area since 2000, has traditionally also been affiliated with the Delaware Valley (and had been officially part of the Delaware Valley Metropolitan Area before 2000). Mercer County, a relatively wealthy county located on the northern fringe of the Delaware Valley MSA, is home to both New York and Philadelphia commuters. In recent years, however, growing numbers of New York commuters have migrated into Mercer. The two main towns in Mercer County are Princeton, located in the northern part of the county, and Trenton, located in the southern part of the county. Princeton identifies with New York because it is home to many New York commuters who began migrating into the area after World War II.[5]Furthermore, the commute time from Princeton to New York by train is much shorter than the commute from Princeton to Philadelphia. Trenton, New Jersey's capital, is fittingly considered the meeting point between New York and Philadelphia. For example, the commute times from Trenton to New York and Trenton to Philadelphia by train are roughly the same. Trenton is also its own metropolitan region, called the Trenton-Ewing MSA.[6]
Bolded, emphasis mine.
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NYC has a higher cost of living allowance compared to Philly thus Mercer County decided to switch allegiances in 2000.
According to my Google-fu, the growing numbers of New York commuters into Mercer county in recent years had a lot to do with the designation. This is what apparently tipped the balance. It is possible that wikipedia is wrong or is telling only half the story so please give us the evidence in support of your story.
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The cmsas are extremely ambiguous and misleading. Any sincere New Yorker would tell you the Poconos, Mercer,Hunterdon counties should not be part f NYCs cmsa. Its a joke.
I doubt that any sincere New Yorker, unless they are into demographics and statistics, would really know or care (including many C-Ders).
I am not saying that your points are completely devoid of merit but do you have actual facts/stats/evidence (not anecdotes, unsupported statements, or hunches) that support your claims?
I see a lot of industry here but don't understand why so high? Is it becasue of the oil boom? is it sustainable?
Houston is a pretty big magnet for energy companies (both oil and gas) and other 500 Fortune companies. Definitely in top 3 for number of fortune 500 companies. It's not all energy though, Houston has one of busiest ports in nation, which makes it a magnet for distribution, manufacturing, and trade. Finally, there's healthcare with the Texas Medical Center.
Sure it's sustainable, Houston is relatively diverse. Oil isn't going anywhere soon, and natural gas is going anywhere even longer. Houston seems to be do better when the globe is doing better, as energy and trade make up a big part of the economy.
Falling? How is metro Philly falling? It has grown in population in every census period taken, it recently(2000) got its next door neighbor Trenton/Mercer County unceremoniously yanked ($30B)from its grips. Of its 9 total metro counties 7 of them are among the top 100 wealthiest counties in the country.
I get into this argument more times than I would like.
Philadelphia metro comparitively speaking is recklessly misrepresented, its 1/2 and in some cases 1/3 the size of some of these comparable bloated never-ending CMSA's. Boston seemingly encaptures most of New England, Washington sprawls from central Va to WVA to the PA border,Dallas and Houstons cmsa spans nearly 150 miles yet Philadelphia doesnt even get represented in the rankings by Trenton which is 15 miles from the city border of Philadelphia.
The Philadelphia msa all things being equal is still arguably the 4th healthiest msa in the country. Dont get too geeked up on this trivial cmsa nonsense.
The urban density of the land area betweenTrenton/Mercer County to Philadelphia is roughly 8,000 people per square mile. Thats city like, an uninterrupted mass of humanity. There is a 40 mile gap of suburbia between Trenton and NYCs urban area. Yet Trenton gets accounted for by NYC, preposterous.
All Im saying is just look at Detroit,Baltimore,Pittsburgh, and Philly they all are NOT where they once were.It is a fact that these cities have not kept pace with the growth of cities that were not even on the radar 20-30 years ago.Personally I prefer MSA.Even the MSA shows a major difference.I don't think what I said was inaccurate at all.I know Philly has been active ain trying to enhance its economy by different measures ,but with the momentum of the West and South,and even cities like Boston and D.C. doing better,Philly has to do more to compete.We've been down this rod before.
Falling? How is metro Philly falling? It has grown in population in every census period taken, it recently(2000) got its next door neighbor Trenton/Mercer County unceremoniously yanked ($30B)from its grips. Of its 9 total metro counties 7 of them are among the top 100 wealthiest counties in the country.
I get into this argument more times than I would like.
Philadelphia metro comparitively speaking is recklessly misrepresented, its 1/2 and in some cases 1/3 the size of some of these comparable bloated never-ending CMSA's. Boston seemingly encaptures most of New England, Washington sprawls from central Va to WVA to the PA border,Dallas and Houstons cmsa spans nearly 150 miles yet Philadelphia doesnt even get represented in the rankings by Trenton which is 15 miles from the city border of Philadelphia.
The urban density of the land area betweenTrenton/Mercer County to Philadelphia is roughly 8,000 people per square mile. Thats city like, an uninterrupted mass of humanity. There is a 40 mile gap of suburbia between Trenton and NYCs urban area. Yet Trenton gets accounted for by NYC, preposterous.
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Originally Posted by rainrock
The Philadelphia msa all things being equal is still arguably the 4th healthiest msa in the country. Dont get too geeked up on this trivial cmsa nonsense.
How pathetic. Its only nonsense to you b/c Philly has one of the only metros that it doesn't give a particular boost to. It seems to work for most the rest of the nation just fine. When it comes to the Bay Area the MSA's are nonsense. So maybe you shouldn't get all geeked up on what YOU consider to be the correct protocol since your preferred method has flaws in certain other cases as well.
You really take this whole Philly metro size issue extremely seriously man. You should probably seek some counseling or something. Your city will not burn as a result of having its metro dwarfed by other greater ones nearby. Get a grip. LOL talk about "getting carried away."
First off, that poster is part of the DC crew. This is probably the first time I've seen anything from him mentioning the Bay in such high regard. But I'm glad to see that the Philly contingent here on CD is sticking to their guns and showing us all once again how little class several of you possess. Thanks for staying true to yourselves, Philly!
Still on your SF-bashing kick I see. If only you had the courage to openly admit what you always try to imply and play off as though you're joking. You're a sad, petty individual.
Man, this thread was going so well until the Philly short bus decided to unload its passengers onto the CD forum. The veiled insults from the slowest of the bunch (see quote from above poster) have become sort of a signature on here. Stay classy, Philadelphia!
All Im saying is just look at Detroit,Baltimore,Pittsburgh, and Philly they all are NOT where they once were.It is a fact that these cities have not kept pace with the growth of cities that were not even on the radar 20-30 years ago.
Philly and Baltimore regions had their growth spurts 150 years ago. They are mature/content, they are running out of real estate which is a requirement given their pleasant but unspectacular natural settings.
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Originally Posted by afonega1
I know Philly has been active ain trying to enhance its economy by different measures ,but with the momentum of the West and South,and even cities like Boston and D.C. doing better,Philly has to do more to compete.We've been down this rod before.
The USAs vastness has led to fatal problems in its structure concerning cities.
Cities have life cycles, and unfortunately cities get old, infrastructure erodes.Growth begets future witherment.The old axiom "The bigger they are the harder they fall." is right on target concerning US cities.
Atlanta,Houston,Dallas will eventually age and weather like the historic cities of the east + midwest. In alot of cases e.g. Baltimore + Philly fortunately their energy didnt shift to another region, the energy encircles 15 -20 miles around the core city. The suburban counties of Baltimore, Philadelphia are growing at healthy rates between 5%-15% and are among the wealthiest in the country. Nobody in Chester County/Montgomery/ Bucks County Pa or Howard County Md are twiddling their thumbs and wondering why cant we be like Atlanta, what they are saying is one day with age and wisdom maybe the Atlanta region can be like us.
As far as the cities themselves?
Who knows what the future holds as far as future redevelopment perhaps the old cities will one day revive to their old glory.Its not going to be easy and its not going to be quick but portions of Philadlephia are well on their way to recovery. Center City Philly 70 years ago was a slum today its arguably one of the best 5 sq. mile urban neighborhoods in this country.
This is Soceity Hill the oldest neighborhood in the usa.Its had its ebbs + flows 75 years ago it was in very poor shape its been brought back.This is just one piece of the puzzle but it inspires hope for the old cities.
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why is Houston so high??
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