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First of all, how can a city at the far edge of a region be the hub?
If it connects to the right places it's a hub
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First of all, how can a city at the far edge of a region be the hub?
CSX uses Atlanta a lot and has a rail yard there. Norfolk Southern also has a yard in Atlanta. Both of these railroads have extensive coverage of the South East of Louisiana.
I never said Houston was a hub of the south, I said the more important hubs are served by the most lines. NF & CSX really only serve the most importance a little east of the MS/AL border.
The south is serviced by six or seven major railroads, Atlanta only has direct access to two of them.
CSX, Norfolk Southern, Union Pacific, BNSF, Canadian National, and KCS all interchange in New Orleans. The only difference is that the yards are maintained by New Orleans Railroad and no the big freight companies. <-perfect example of a hub on the edge.
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Let's see for Houston: Union Pacific has a yard there, but how relevent is this to the South? Here's a little visual aid: File:Union Pacific Railroad system map.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I know of no Class 1 railroads that are important to the South that have a presence in Houston and not Atlanta. But the opposite is true. Seriously, you'd have to be insane to think Houston is the rail hub of the South.
When did I say Houston was the hub of the south, I just mentioned it had Class I one railroads and actually it has 2 instead of 3 as I said earlier.
What's more important to a region? A network that only serves a maybe a little more than half the region itself or a netwprl that can easily connect the region to the rest of the country???
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Stats about I-10? Doesn't really matter though since we're not talking about the West Coast are we? If we were talking about national importance than an interstate going to Cali would bare some importance.
You must forget how important I-10 is to Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida?
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So we have Houston with only 1 interstate! If you're going to claim I-45 has an "indirect" reach than Atlanta's I-20 reaches I-95 in South Carolina, and I-85 reaches I-77 in Charlotte. According to your "indirect" measure that connects Atlanta with the North. But indirect is meaningless since they are all actually connected-the point is Atlanta has 3 interstates while Houston has 1.
Duh.. I said I-20 goes from I-10 to I-95. Anyway the # an interstates a city has is meaningless expecially when they all basically go to the same place.
Out of Atlanta's freeways I-75 is the only one important on a national scale.
I-10, I-75, I-95 are the souths major carriers. I-85 only connects 95 to 65 (although it is important to the GA/NC area). and I-20 connects 10 to 95.
Oh yeah, I-45 is actually U.S. 75 and goes much further than Dallas. The only thing that stops is the official interstate designation.
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In some ways it is. For example, I think Atlanta's glut of pop culture is quite important to record companies so this impacts the South's economy. Importance can be measured in many ways, and only a fool would deny cultural influence.
^ still subjective. How far do you think the cultural unfluence of Atlanta actually spreads? Even on a music level it doesn't go that far outside mainstream media.
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Perhaps my last sentence. But do you care to dispute Atlanta's historical importance? It's central location? Really anything that I mentioned there?
The cities have different histories that affect different regions and cultures.. You can't really argue that one is more important then the other.
I never said Houston was a hub of the south, I said the more important hubs are served by the most lines. NF & CSX really only serve the most importance a little east of the MS/AL border.
The south is serviced by six or seven major railroads, Atlanta only has direct access to two of them.
CSX, Norfolk Southern, Union Pacific, BNSF, Canadian National, and KCS all interchange in New Orleans. The only difference is that the yards are maintained by New Orleans Railroad and no the big freight companies. <-perfect example of a hub on the edge.
When did I say Houston was the hub of the south, I just mentioned it had Class I one railroads and actually it has 2 instead of 3 as I said earlier.
What's more important to a region? A network that only serves a maybe a little more than half the region itself or a netwprl that can easily connect the region to the rest of the country???
You must forget how important I-10 is to Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida?
Duh.. I said I-20 goes from I-10 to I-95. Anyway the # an interstates a city has is meaningless expecially when they all basically go to the same place.
Out of Atlanta's freeways I-75 is the only one important on a national scale.
I-10, I-75, I-95 are the souths major carriers. I-85 only connects 95 to 65 (although it is important to the GA/NC area). and I-20 connects 10 to 95.
Oh yeah, I-45 is actually U.S. 75 and goes much further than Dallas. The only thing that stops is the official interstate designation.
^ still subjective. How far do you think the cultural unfluence of Atlanta actually spreads? Even on a music level it doesn't go that far outside mainstream media.
The cities have different histories that affect different regions and cultures.. You can't really argue that one is more important then the other.
Lets see about "cultural" and "historical":
If any city could be a cultural or historical representation of its region and contribution to National culture,it would be probably New Orleans,but right after that it would be Atlanta.Since we are talking overall,New Orleans on the other levels would make it much lower.So Atlanta IMO is it for these reasons: Gone With The Wind
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Gone With the Wind (Film)
Few films are so closely identified with a geographical region as Gone With the Wind is identified with Georgia and the Old South.
Commemorative StampThe 1939 adaptation of Margaret Mitchell's 1936 novel, produced by David O. Selznick, featured such well-known actors as Clark Gable (Rhett Butler), Olivia de Havilland (Melanie Wilkes), and Leslie Howard (Ashley Wilkes), and made a star of actress Vivien Leigh (Scarlett O'Hara). It remains one of the most popular and commercially successful films ever made. Its main theme, from the Max Steiner score, is recognized throughout the world. In its use of color, scene design, and cinematography, it set new standards. The film won eight Academy Awards, more than any film up to that time
Sherman March to the Sea-Through Atlanta to Savannah:
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The Atlanta Campaign was a series of battles fought in the Western Theater throughout northwest Georgia and the area around Atlanta, Georgia, during the summer of 1864, leading to the eventual fall of Atlanta and hastening the end of the American Civil War
The city of Atlanta, Georgia, was an important rail and commercial center during the American Civil War.
Trail of Tears-Began unfortunately with Georgia and the removal of the Cherokee Nation which is where Atlanta sits in:
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The Trail of Tears was the relocation and movement of Native Americans in the United States from their homelands to Indian Territory (present day Oklahoma) in the Western United States. In 1826, the Georgia legislature asked the John Quincy Adams administration to negotiate a removal treaty. Adams, a supporter of Indian sovereignty, initially refused, but when Georgia threatened to nullify the current treaty, he approached the Cherokee to negotiate.
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Gold was discovered in Georgia in late 1829, and the ensuing gold rush only increased Georgians' determination to see the Cherokee removed.[1] Cherokee were forbidden to dig for gold, and the state began surveying the Cherokee country in anticipation of a lottery to distribute the land to white Georgians. This lottery was held in 1832, and in the following session the legislature stripped the Cherokees of all land other than their residence and adjoining improvements. By 1834 this exception was also removed. When state judges intervened on behalf of Cherokee residents, they were harrassed and denied jurisdiction over such cases
Many people think that the Olympics was Atlanta's first big world event.It was not.
The 1895 Cotton States and International Exposition
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Was held at the current Piedmont Park in Atlanta, Georgia. It is most remembered for the Atlanta Compromise speech given by Booker T. Washington on September 18, 1895.
The Exposition was open for 100 days, beginning on September 18, 1895 and ending December 31, 1895, attracted visitors from the U.S. and 13 countries.[1] Over $2,000,000 was spent on the transformation of Piedmont Park.[2] The government allocated $250,000 for the construction of a government building and many states and countries such as Argentina also had their own buildings. President Grover Cleveland presided over the opening of the exposition.The great American band master John Phillip Sousa composed his famous march, King Cotton, for the exposition, and dedicated it to the people of the state of Georgia.Nearly 800,000 visitors attended the event in the fall of 1895.
From Wika a pic of Peidmont Park at the time:
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The Atlanta Cotton States and International Exposition Speech was an address on the topic of race relations given by black leader Booker T. Washington on September 18, 1895. Presented before a predominantly white audience at the Cotton States and International Exposition (later the site of Piedmont Park) in Atlanta, Georgia, the speech[1] has been recognized as one of the most important and influential speeches in American history.
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Future politician and historian, Walter McElreath, described it in his memoirs:
The railroad yards were jammed every morning with trains that brought enormous crowds. The streets were crowded all day long. Every conceivable kind of fakir bartered his wares. Dime museums flourished on every street.... Vast stucco hotels stood on Fourteenth Street.... I spent a great deal of time on the streets looking at the strange crowds -- American Indians, Circassians, Hindus, Japanese, and people from every corner of the globe -- who had come as professional midway entertainers or fakirs
LaFace Records
The Atlanta-based LaFace Records was home to some of the top-selling pop, rhythm-and-blues, and rap artists of the 1990s and helped establish Atlanta's reputation as the new Motown. Founded in 1989 by Antonio "L.A." Reid and Kenneth "Babyface" Edmonds as a joint venture with Arista Records in New York, the label produced thirty-three number-one singles by such artists as TLC, OutKast, Usher, and Toni Braxton.
Ted Turner CNN/TBS Founder:
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Atlanta Braves baseball games were added to the station's lineup. Within three years, Turner's "Superstation" was beamed via satellite to homes across the country, making residents from Alaska to Florida fans of the Braves, who became known as "America's Team." In 1979 the station's call letters were changed to WTBS to reflect the company's new name, Turner Broadcasting System.
Henry W. Grady (1850-1889)
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Henry W. Grady, the "Spokesman of the New South," served as managing editor for the Atlanta Constitution in the 1880s. A member of the Atlanta Ring of Democratic political leaders, Grady used his office and influence to promote a New South program of northern investment, southern industrial growth, diversified farming, and white supremacy.
Frederick Law Olmsted in Georgia
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Olmsted's design for Druid Hills is Georgia's most complete and masterful example of his artistic principles, which were employed by others in a number of Atlanta developments, including Ansley Park, Peachtree Battle, and Garden Hill
Martin Luther King /Civil Rights-(we really don't need to go there do we?)We all know.
Charles Lindbergh
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In 1923 Charles Lindbergh flew his first solo flight at Souther Field in Americus. He visited Georgia again in 1927 as part of his triumphal tour in the Spirit of St. Louis, the plane in which he made his record-breaking nonstop flight between New York City and Paris, France. Lindbergh's Atlanta visit became a stimulus for commercial aviation in Atlanta and the development of Candler Field.
As far as rail and trucking.Its all Logistics.
Trucking is a bigger industry at the moment than rail.But Atlanta is ranks in the top 5 as a logistic center.The Nation's 5th Largest Logistics Employer.
Rank Metro Name Employment
1 Los Angeles-Long Beach, CA 127,715
2 Chicago, IL 112,536
3 New York, NY 102,377
4 Boston, MA* 99,659
5 ATLANTA, GA 91,910
6 Seattle-Bellevue-Everett, WA 78,570
7 Dallas, TX 75,767
8 Washington, DC-MD-VA-WV 74,831
9 San Francisco, CA 74,389
10 Houston, TX 66,739
Source: Cluster Mapping Project, Institute
Tennessee, Alabama, & South Carolina are not as business friendly as Georgia so that affects were growth is sustainable, which reduces competition.
Alabama is one of the MOST business friendly states. Witness automobile manufacturing plants, as well as other industry. And you forget that VW chose Tennessee for its new plant...SC is developing its industrial base...as a whole, the South is extremely business friendly!
Alabama is one of the MOST business friendly states. Witness automobile manufacturing plants, as well as other industry. And you forget that VW chose Tennessee for its new plant...SC is developing its industrial base...as a whole, the South is extremely business friendly!
Alabama has landed three new auto assembly plants in recent years...Mercedes-Benz, Honda, and Hyundai.
I don't know. Greensboro is home to the ACC, Jefferson Pilot corp, a huge Fed Ex Hub at the airport (they beat out Charlotte for landing this hub), one of the nicest water parks in the state, 2nd best School of Engineering in the State (NC A &T), most Universities in a single county in the State, and one of the largest Coliseums in the state (seating capacity). Greensboro is certainly one of the top 5 most important cities in NC. However, it is not a top 5 in the Southeast.
Those are all nice attritutes to the city of Greensboro, but I don't see how any of them make Greensboro more important than the top 5 cities in N.C. There are Raleigh and Charlotte, but then there are 4 cities with roughly the same population (200,000 to 250,000): Durham, Winston-Salem, Fayetteville, and Greensboro. IMO, Greensboro is the least important of those four and comes in at #6 overall.
Well i think, Atlanta has better PT, Houston has better infrastructure. I think Houston has the 2nd best freeway system(in terms of accessibility, alternate routes, etc), after LA. Yet, we still have traffic problems.
Innovation is subjective, especially if your talking about population growth. Which, by that criteria, Houston wins, since its MSA has a lager population.
The Olympics in Atlanta were really looked down upon, and seen as a mistake post-1996, so wether it became a tier1 city after that is depending on who you ask. It did, however gave Atlanta more recognition..And this also depends on your definition of tier 1, since it definitely isnt a tier 1 city globally, and even nationally is considered either a tier 2 or tier 3 city, whereas Houston is usually considered a solid tier 2 city. Again, subjective. But from all these tier threads, Houston is almost always tier2 on peoples list a lot more than ATL, but thats another topic.
Yes, Atlanta has a big airport, but Houston has IAH which is a big airport itself, and was the fastest growing airport in recent years. Add in Hobby Airport, and thats about another 250K airport operations. And the Port of Houston is VERY IMPORTANT, since its a major port. I ask, would you rather have a MAJOR AIRPORT, or a BIG AIRPORT+A BIG PORT. One is obviously more significant, and that is Houston. Not knocking down Atlantas airport, though.
Houston at least has Rice, and it looks like UH is becoming a better institution every year. So maybe, in 5-10 years time, Houston will have 2 major, well-known universities, just maybe.
Houston has 27 FORTUNE 500 companies, not even worth comparing to Atlanta's 9. But it has Coca-Cola, one of the most well-known brands, so i can see why you think Atlanta rivals Houston in companies, but i assure you, it doesn't.
I don't think any city wants to be known for traffic issues.
Culture, im guessing you mean mainstream culture. Because Houston is a center for culture. 2nd Largest concentration of theater seats, behind NY. Some well-visited museums concentrated in the renowned Museum District. And yada, yada, yada. I think we all heard what Houston has to offer, that Atlanta can't match.
Don't know why you brought up medical, i only have 3 words in response: Texas Medical Center. But, if your purpose was just to make people aware of what Atlanta offers medically, than ok.
Political, Houston is not a capital, and Atlanta is, so not even worth arguing.
What you have to see, is all the advantages Atlanta has. No competition in its state for major city. So that helped Atlanta's airport grow, and companies in GA are mostly hq'd in ATL, because there aren't any other major cities.
So what were looking at here is a State City(ATL) competing with a Metropolitan City(HOU), so you can see where Atlanta gets the upper-hand sometimes.
*State City: City that has control of the state. Basically, the only major city in the state. hence, state city.
*Metropolitan City: City that has control of its MSA, but faces competition from other cities limiting Regional control. Houston might be a Regional city, but regions are hard to define. Especially since SE Texas, is basically Greater Houston.
In a lot of ways this is basically the State of GA, versus Greater Houston.
You keep saying that The Olympics were looked down upon,yet it was the model of efficiency that the new Olympic cities STILL ask for consultation today on how to for pull off a successful Olympics.Including how to WIN an Olympics.Their presentation was state of the Art. Assisted by Georgia Tech.It was easily the best ever presentation the history of the Olympics.
Alabama is one of the MOST business friendly states. Witness automobile manufacturing plants, as well as other industry. And you forget that VW chose Tennessee for its new plant...SC is developing its industrial base...as a whole, the South is extremely business friendly!
Not to mention,that most people do not realize that Birmingham was THE major banking center before Charlotte was.It had AmSouth,South Trust,Regions.That was in the 80's-90"S.Today only Regions stands.
You keep saying that The Olympics were looked down upon,yet it was the model of efficiency that the new Olympic cities STILL ask for consultation today on how to for pull off a successful Olympics.Including how to WIN an Olympics.Their presentation was state of the Art. Assisted by Georgia Tech.It was easily the best ever presentation the history of the Olympics.
That's a joke that the Atlanta Olympics were "seen as a mistake". I've never heard it referred to in that way, as it was one of the most financially successful Olympics ever and had the highest ticket sales ever. How could that be a mistake?
Anyone who would say such a thing is chewing some sour grapes...just like the foreign press, in response to Atlanta winning the Centennial Games over Athens. Sour grapes.
You keep saying that The Olympics were looked down upon,yet it was the model of efficiency that the new Olympic cities STILL ask for consultation today on how to for pull off a successful Olympics.Including how to WIN an Olympics.Their presentation was state of the Art. Assisted by Georgia Tech.It was easily the best ever presentation the history of the Olympics.
The only ones who really looked down on the Atlanta Olympics were the foreign press, and people that have issues with ANYTHING related to the South.
I was there, and met and chatted with people from every corner of the globe. I can assure you that the people in attendance had a wonderful time. It was pretty obvious to anyone lucky enough to be there.
The only ones who really looked down on the Atlanta Olympics were the foreign press, and people that have issues with ANYTHING related to the South.
I was there, and met and chatted with people from every corner of the globe. I can assure you that the people in attendance had a wonderful time. It was pretty obvious to anyone lucky enough to be there.
I second that.
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.And this also depends on your definition of tier 1, since it definitely isnt a tier 1 city globally, and even nationally is considered either a tier 2 or tier 3 city, whereas Houston is usually considered a solid tier 2 city. Again, subjective. But from all these tier threads, Houston is almost always tier2 on peoples list a lot more than ATL, but thats another topic.