Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
California is much more liberal than New York [not sure about the other states]. New York state legislature has had a strong Republican presence. NYC often has Republican mayors. New York still doesn't not allow gay marriage or marijuana use. In-fact I can't think of a state more liberal than California. Maybe you can give reasons for your assumption that California is "not really" liberal.
California (which I often see as an "independent nation"), is certainly liberal in some ways and I would definitely include it in the top 10, but I still think it is less liberal than the 5 states I mentioned--VT, MA, MD, NY, and RI.
Compared to NY:
-California still doesn't have legal gay marriage (despite legalization attempts) and currently has the same legal stance on the issue as NY does--recognizes marriages performed in other states
-it has a Republican (although not all that conservative) governor while New York has a democratic governor
-California voted Democratic in 2008 with a slightly lower percentage (63% vs 61%) than NY
-CA has executed 678 people and has 13 on death row, while in NY capital punishment is unconstitutional
-New York, Maryland, and California have the strictest gun control saws (apart from DC), but New York is the strictest, by requiring any person in possesion of any handgun to have a license with them at all times.
-Forbes ranks California 14th in its "Greenest States" rankings compared to NY's ranking of 9th (Vermont ranked 1st, Maryland 5th, Rhode Island 8th, Massachusetts 11th)
-As far as marijuana is concerned, it's decriminalized in both NY and CA (though not MD, MA, or RI)
-While the following aren't neccessarily strong indicators, they're usually correlated: 3 out of the 5 states have a higher percentage of public transportation users (NY, MA, MD). All 5 states (MA, MD, VT, NY, RI) have a higher percentage of bachelor's degree holders. 2 of the states (MD, MA) have higher median incomes.
In all the categories above California ranks highly, almost always in the top 20%, but usually behind the 5 states I mentioned, including NY. Since it was only 5 states I excluded CA, but it still leans decidedly to the left. I would probably place CA 6th or 7th.
California (which I often see as an "independent nation"), is certainly liberal in some ways and I would definitely include it in the top 10, but I still think it is less liberal than the 5 states I mentioned--VT, MA, MD, NY, and RI.
Compared to NY:
-California still doesn't have legal gay marriage (despite legalization attempts) and currently has the same legal stance on the issue as NY does--recognizes marriages performed in other states
-it has a Republican (although not all that conservative) governor while New York has a democratic governor
-California voted Democratic in 2008 with a slightly lower percentage (63% vs 61%) than NY
-CA has executed 678 people and has 13 on death row, while in NY capital punishment is unconstitutional
-New York, Maryland, and California have the strictest gun control saws (apart from DC), but New York is the strictest, by requiring any person in possesion of any handgun to have a license with them at all times.
-Forbes ranks California 14th in its "Greenest States" rankings compared to NY's ranking of 9th (Vermont ranked 1st, Maryland 5th, Rhode Island 8th, Massachusetts 11th)
-As far as marijuana is concerned, it's decriminalized in both NY and CA (though not MD, MA, or RI)
-While the following aren't neccessarily strong indicators, they're usually correlated: 3 out of the 5 states have a higher percentage of public transportation users (NY, MA, MD). All 5 states (MA, MD, VT, NY, RI) have a higher percentage of bachelor's degree holders. 2 of the states (MD, MA) have higher median incomes.
In all the categories above California ranks highly, almost always in the top 20%, but usually behind the 5 states I mentioned, including NY. Since it was only 5 states I excluded CA, but it still leans decidedly to the left. I would probably place CA 6th or 7th.
Couple major mistakes:
1. California has executed 13 not 678 [I know you got you numbers turned around] - honest mistake].
2. Since when is marijuana legal in New York? Even in NYC people get arrested for small amounts of marijuana. New York is not liberal in drug use.
3. Governors go both Republican & Democratic in New York & California but even Republican governors in California are hardly the typical Republican & Schwarzenegger signed the strictest environmental policies of any state, esp the so-called liberal states you have listed. Also he proposed universal health care & approved gay marriage after the state court ok'd it. California has everything but gay marriage for gays [unions]. New York has never approved [court or legislature gay marriage]. California had gay marriage [which is being renewed again in the court]. New York has never had gay marriage in any sort and the state legislature is way behind many other states regarding gay issues [Iowa, New Jersey, Maine, etc].
4. New York doesn't even come close to California in areas of liberal policies [ie. stem-cell funding, direct voter iniatitives, environmental protections, etc - many more examples were listed in previous posts].
5. New York City isn't as liberal as either Los Angeles or San Francisco & New York state doesn't have any centers of progressive thinking comparable to Berkeley, Arcata, Santa Cruz, Santa Monica, etc.
You're argument is weak & without substantiation. If you are just citing your own opinion than that's one thing but otherwise you are incorrect about New York. And the other states with the exception of Massachusetts & Vermont also don't compare to California when it applies to liberalness. Maryland is a joke & Rhode Island doesn't have anything that can be considered liberal except voting Democratic [I mentioned that many Southern states also used to be overwhelmingly Democratic but are certainly not liberal].
You will have to hone your argument to convince anyone that New York, Maryland & Rhode Island are more liberal than California or even states like Oregon, Hawaii or New Jersey.
Most liberal:
1. California
2. Massachusetts
3. Vermont
4. New Jersey
5. ? [could be Minnesota, Oregon, Hawaii & Washington]
Maybe another way to tackle this problem would be to comprise two lists: one for fiscally conservative/liberal, and another for social liberal/conservative. I live in New Mexico, and here is an example of a state that goes one way socially (conservative) and another way fiscally (strong belief in income redistribution). I would venture to think that many of the northeast states might go the other way, such as New Hampshire, or New Jersey.
Rhode Island doesn't have anything that can be considered liberal except voting Democratic [I mentioned that many Southern states also used to be overwhelmingly Democratic but are certainly not liberal]. ]
That's because in the early 60s, the South abandoned the Democratic party in droves due to LBJ abd RFK's agressive stance on civil rights. The GOP welcomed them with open arms, and it's been that way ever since! (Did you know that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican?)
The pre-1960 Democratic Party was an odd amalgamation with heavy representations of Jews, Catholics, working class, union and yes, white Southerners! The Republicans were mostly WASPs, northern farmers, small and large businessmen, professionals, and old money.
2. Since when is marijuana legal in New York? Even in NYC people get arrested for small amounts of marijuana. New York is not liberal in drug use.
Where did anyone claim it's legal? Do you understand the difference between legalization and decriminalization?
Quote:
Also he proposed universal health care & approved gay marriage
Who cares? We don't have either one of those things while MA does.
Quote:
5. New York City isn't as liberal as either Los Angeles or San Francisco
It definately is, when you look at how they vote and the array of social welfare programs they have, it is very liberal and up there with LA and SF.
Also you keep making this argument about gay marriage, you do realize that LA County voted to ban gay marriage with Prop 8? I guess that doesn't make LA County very liberal by your logic.
Quote:
You're argument is weak & without substantiation. If you are just citing your own opinion than that's one thing
You're doing the exact same thing and making the same type of arguments, just listing off random things to try to make a place look liberal.
Quote:
You will have to hone your argument to convince anyone that New York, Maryland & Rhode Island are more liberal than California or even states like Oregon, Hawaii or New Jersey.
Most liberal:
1. California
2. Massachusetts
3. Vermont
4. New Jersey
5. ? [could be Minnesota, Oregon, Hawaii & Washington]
Maybe you don't realize this but as far as I can tell you are the ONLY one on this thread saying CA is the most liberal state while several other Californians have said it's not. You're in the minority believing CA is the most liberal state here.
New Jersey isn't nearly as "liberal" as many pundits on TV and internet forumers seem to believe. NJ is one of three northeastern states that could go blue to red at any time. PA and NH are always "battleground states," and NJ has never been a guaranteed blue. An assumption that Northeasterners are all Democrats would be a wrong one.
This may be bordering on off-topic, but here's why (IMO). The Northeast has always had a ton of prominent Republican politicians with lots of support from the people. The problem for them lately is that many Northeasterners feel the party has been hijacked by the evangelical movement and that has made a lot of them stay home on election day or cast a protest vote. Speaking for myself, I vote for many Republicans at the local and state level, but (most of the time) I simply can't bring myself to support Republicans in races for Congress or President. I don't want to support the national GOP. They generally don't represent my interests, and sometimes their rhetoric frightens me. If at the national level, the GOP can bring back the anti-tax-and-spend message and kill all of the guns/gays/god hogwash, I think Northeastern Republicans would show up at the polls again.
Where did anyone claim it's legal? Do you understand the difference between legalization and decriminalization?
Who cares? We don't have either one of those things while MA does. It definately is, when you look at how they vote and the array of social welfare programs they have, it is very liberal and up there with LA and SF.
Also you keep making this argument about gay marriage, you do realize that LA County voted to ban gay marriage with Prop 8? I guess that doesn't make LA County very liberal by your logic.
You're doing the exact same thing and making the same type of arguments, just listing off random things to try to make a place look liberal. Maybe you don't realize this but as far as I can tell you are the ONLY one on this thread saying CA is the most liberal state while several other Californians have said it's not. You're in the minority believing CA is the most liberal state here.
Wow, so unsubstantiated comments & uninformed opinion are more important than the facts? Listen to your self & realize you haven't provided one bit of evidence that California is not as liberal as New York as well as the other states some identify. If you want credibility than do some research to prove your point otherwise you are a homer blabbing emptiness
Another wow! "It definately is, when you look at how they vote and the array of social welfare programs they have". Please elaborate. And how does New York state differ from California in welfare policies?
The earlier poster wrote that marijuana is decriminalized in New York. Do you believe that? If you do then are wrong again. Please do some work before offering nonsense. Marijuana is not fully legal in California either but it is up for a vote this year. New Yorkers aren't even allowed to vote in open initiatives. Los Angeles has something like 1000 marijuana dispensaries [though the city council wants to limit the number to 70]. There are no dispensaries in NYC or anywhere in New York because they still feel it is a "dangerous drug" [I suspect you feel the same way but that off topic].
Yes, please point out how Prop 8 won by 4 percent of the vote & barely passed in Los Angeles county [yet failed in Los Angeles]. How does any of that compare to NYC & New York? They do not have gay marriage, never did & still no movement to embrace this very liberal issue.
I don't feel like wasting my time with people who only repeat what others believe & don't take the time to study the issue.
1. California has executed 13 not 678 [I know you got you numbers turned around] - honest mistake].
2. Since when is marijuana legal in New York? Even in NYC people get arrested for small amounts of marijuana. New York is not liberal in drug use.
3. Governors go both Republican & Democratic in New York & California but even Republican governors in California are hardly the typical Republican & Schwarzenegger signed the strictest environmental policies of any state, esp the so-called liberal states you have listed. Also he proposed universal health care & approved gay marriage after the state court ok'd it. California has everything but gay marriage for gays [unions]. New York has never approved [court or legislature gay marriage]. California had gay marriage [which is being renewed again in the court]. New York has never had gay marriage in any sort and the state legislature is way behind many other states regarding gay issues [Iowa, New Jersey, Maine, etc].
4. New York doesn't even come close to California in areas of liberal policies [ie. stem-cell funding, direct voter iniatitives, environmental protections, etc - many more examples were listed in previous posts].
5. New York City isn't as liberal as either Los Angeles or San Francisco & New York state doesn't have any centers of progressive thinking comparable to Berkeley, Arcata, Santa Cruz, Santa Monica, etc.
You're argument is weak & without substantiation. If you are just citing your own opinion than that's one thing but otherwise you are incorrect about New York. And the other states with the exception of Massachusetts & Vermont also don't compare to California when it applies to liberalness. Maryland is a joke & Rhode Island doesn't have anything that can be considered liberal except voting Democratic [I mentioned that many Southern states also used to be overwhelmingly Democratic but are certainly not liberal].
You will have to hone your argument to convince anyone that New York, Maryland & Rhode Island are more liberal than California or even states like Oregon, Hawaii or New Jersey.
Most liberal:
1. California
2. Massachusetts
3. Vermont
4. New Jersey
5. ? [could be Minnesota, Oregon, Hawaii & Washington]
1. my mistake, but that point still stands.
VT and RI have no death penalty statute and it's been declared unconstitutional in NY and MA. MD has a death penalty but has only executed 5, with 5 on death row. There's also a moratorium on death penalties in the state.
2. I never said marijuana was illegal. I said it was decriminalized in both states, which means the penalty has been significantly reduced, and it is not a law enforcement priority. Granted, somelocal jurisdictions in CA do have more liberal laws than you would find in NY.
3. Right. Since the 70's, 4 of 7 New York governors have been Democrat. Only 2 of 6 California governors have been Democrat. (6 of 7 in MD, 4 of 7 in RI). Only 36 out of California's 55 members of its congressional delegation are Democrats. In New York 27 out of 31 are Democrats, 4 out of 4 in Rhode Island, and 9 out of 10 in Maryland. That's a huuuge difference.
In terms of same-sex marriage, I agree that California may be more progressive on this issue, but it's not as far ahead of the others as you make it seem. California doesn't have gay marriage now. Iowa does, but Iowa isn't liberal. California allows unions, New York recognizes marriages performed in other states, RI has no statue on the matter, and Maryland grants limited rights to same sex couples, but I'll concede this one for argument's sake.
While, neither New York or Rhode Island utilize voter initiatives or referendums, Maryland does use the latter (the only state on the east Coast to do so). Massachusetts has both initiatives and referendums.
5. Los Angeles is definitely not as liberal than New York; that's the first time I've heard anyone claim that. You also have to consider that while the Bay Area is more liberal than any place you would find in New York, it only makes up about 1/6 of CA's population. While NYC (and it's NY suburbs) account for well over half of the population of NY state.
Trust me, this is definitely just not my opinion, even just judging by the suprising number of recs. my post received.
A search of google of "most liberal states" will display the following website as the first result: Write Idea Amazingly, it has the exact same 5 states I mentioned, albeit in a different order. (Of course it's just an opinion blog)
Wow, so unsubstantiated comments & uninformed opinion are more important than the facts? Listen to your self & realize you haven't provided one bit of evidence that California is not as liberal as New York as well as the other states some identify. If you want credibility than do some research to prove your point otherwise you are a homer blabbing emptiness
Again, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You are by far one of the biggest, most biased CA homers on this site. What evidence have you provided? I don't see any links or any articles to support what you are saying. In a previous post I provided numerous links to show how many counties in Southern Ca lean republican in presidential elections after you claimed that no counties in Southern CA were republican.
Quote:
Another wow! "It definately is, when you look at how they vote and the array of social welfare programs they have". Please elaborate. And how does New York state differ from California in welfare policies?
You seriously need to improve your reading comprehension. I didn't say it was more liberal than LA or SF or had more social welfare policies, I said it ranked up there with them. Rent control, housing subsidies, etc.. similar to programs in LA and SF.
And look up how each county in NYC votes in presidential elections, they vote more democratic than LA County does.
Quote:
The earlier poster wrote that marijuana is decriminalized in New York. Do you believe that? If you do then are wrong again. Please do some work before offering nonsense.
A small amount of weed in NY is no different than CA, they're both misdemeanors with $100 fines. Do some damn research before you pretend to know what you're talking about KID.
Weed is decriminalized in NY state like it is here in CA.
Quote:
There are no dispensaries in NYC or anywhere in New York because they still feel it is a "dangerous drug" [I suspect you feel the same way but that off topic].
Really? That's funny b/c I bought my weekly 1/8th last night and have bought weed in NYC before. Have you?
Quote:
Yes, please point out how Prop 8 won by 4 percent of the vote & barely passed in Los Angeles county [yet failed in Los Angeles]. How does any of that compare to NYC & New York? They do not have gay marriage, never did & still no movement to embrace this very liberal issue.
"The idea of legislating same-sex marriage may have majority support among the New York population, according to recent opinion polls, and the New York State Assembly passed same-sex marriage legalization bills multiple times. However, the New York Senate rejected it in a vote on December 2, 2009."
So just like CA, they tried and still don't have it. The end result is the two states are the same when it comes to gay marriage, neither have it.
Quote:
I don't feel like wasting my time with people who only repeat what others believe & don't take the time to study the issue.
I am stating what I believe and what others believe. You are in the minority and the ONLY PERSON on this thread who believes CA is the most liberal state. You are a kid, not an adult, in HIGH SCHOOL with no college education, very little travel outside of CA and probably LA County, and little life experiance but like a typical thick headed teenager believes they know everything at such a young age. It's actually quite amusing. Hopefully one day you'll grow up and gain some real knowledge.
New Jersey isn't nearly as "liberal" as many pundits on TV and internet forumers seem to believe. NJ is one of three northeastern states that could go blue to red at any time. PA and NH are always "battleground states," and NJ has never been a guaranteed blue. An assumption that Northeasterners are all Democrats would be a wrong one.
This may be bordering on off-topic, but here's why (IMO). The Northeast has always had a ton of prominent Republican politicians with lots of support from the people. The problem for them lately is that many Northeasterners feel the party has been hijacked by the evangelical movement and that has made a lot of them stay home on election day or cast a protest vote. Speaking for myself, I vote for many Republicans at the local and state level, but (most of the time) I simply can't bring myself to support Republicans in races for Congress or President. I don't want to support the national GOP. They generally don't represent my interests, and sometimes their rhetoric frightens me. If at the national level, the GOP can bring back the anti-tax-and-spend message and kill all of the guns/gays/god hogwash, I think Northeastern Republicans would show up at the polls again.
a so called "Rockefeller" NE Republican. He is basically Republican for fiscal and government matters. However, when it comes to the social issues, he, too, says the Republican Party has been hijacked by the religous right. He has said he would stay home, and has, if the choice was one these "flaming god" people.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Even in NYC people get arrested for small amounts of marijuana. New York is not liberal in drug use.
You sound like my Republican husband
