Can the USA make it without California and New York City? (rates, compare)

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by afonega1

Those are very good points.Of course I have a counter.
With the new smaller California.The drain of Mexico and illegal immigrants will hit even harder without the Federal Government.(of the smaller u.S.).Where will all these computer geeks come from?Medical research?Boston with MIT,Harvard,Atlanta with Georgia Tech,Seattle with Microsoft,Texas and Florida with NASA,Dell,and its military installations.North Carolina with The Research Triangle and Duke,Minnesota and the Mayo Clinic.

Back to military power.California would lose much of its aviation industry and related jobs because Boeing is head quartered in Chicago, Lockheed-Martin in Maryland.California would need a military.Oh thats right..You have the Terminator/Commando for a Governor

The cars people buy will come from plants in Tennesee,Georgia,Michigan,South Carolina,Alabama etc...

Lastly where will it get it oil from?

Keep in mind that California once had more military installations than any other state. But the government cut back and closed many bases when Clinton and Bush were presidents. The overall military needs didn't justify keeping some of these large installations. Only San Diego still has a large military presence. Actually, there is an anti-military mindset in California by some people and the Bay Area in particular was unhappy with the military.

Small nations don't need a huge military anyway and rely on treaties.

California produces oil in case you didn't know. There are lots of oil wells but no new refineries have been allowed in decades due to air quality concerns. Green technology will replace the internal combustion engine within the next decade.

I agree, though that rebelwomen shouldnt have negative opinions about California like the one she has because they dont seem accurate.

However, good luck to the state you live in(Wyoming) and having it be economically successful and stuff like that.

I know New Yorkers and Californians that can appreciate things about Wyoming.

[toughguy]

So assume California secceeds, then instantly has to start paying tariffs on exported goods to the U.S...They would no longer have the immense competitive advantage of unencumbered trade with the rest of the U.S. The idea of California being "held back" by the rest of the country is laughable.

Honestly these secession scenarios are ridiculous, poorly-thought out fantasies conceived by uninformed children.

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by NaturalUrbanBalence

To Californio sur: I wasnt citing something.

Theres a way for someone to love a particular place and what that place might stand for but not be narrow minded and arrogant about it like some people are expressing in this thread.


Look at it this way as one example:

My sibling had two roommates. One of the roommates was from the Bay area of California. The other roommate was from the Charlotte, North Carolina area. Both of those roommates were best friends each other. The friend from California respects that friend from North Carolina just as much as other friends, including friends that person has from California. Both of those roommates would admit they prefer California without hesitation over North Carolina but both can admit that there are positives to North Carolina, that great people can exist there, that lame people can be living in California, and that they hope good things for North Carolina's future even though they dont want anything to do with it since they rather be somewhere like California or another place than North Carolina. But they can still see how someone that might be similar as both of them in some ways might still want to live in North Carolina
-------------------------------------------------------


I am sure everyone that lives in places like New York city or California would want other places in the USA to share the success that both of those places have with certain things and for positive things that might be related to NYC and California to be in other places too and for great people and things to be everywhere instead of only one particular place.

If not, then those people are very arrogant, narrow minded, selfish, cold, heartless, and overall pretty nasty people if they dont want other places in America and the world to be doing well with certain things too.

Why would someone from NYC or California want to speak so arrogantly about certain other places and make it sound like they dont want any positive investment for another place and for certain other places to not get better with certain things and not get to NYC/California/ and other places' level.



Now I will name another example. I am from New York City. I have two friends from rural Pennsylvania and rural Ohio. I would personally never live in rural Ohio or Pennsylvania and just like NYC more for myself but I have as much respect for them as friends I have in places like New York City and in some ways me and those two friends have similar interests as each other and similarities. They are both great people and Im glad Im friends with them and I would want them to be into culture, intellectual activities, multiculturalism and access things like that however they can where they live just like someone in California or NYC.

I understand what you are communicating and agree that by putting down other states only to boast about California or NYC is unfair and repulsive. I think most people are pointing out what California and NYC contribute to the nation and do not mean to put down other states. At least that is not what I have done. My point is that the about of food produced in California is more than any state and can not be merely corrected by growing more food in the other states. Climate determines what can be grown and it is not just a matter of sunshine and warm temps. A combination of factors contribute to the vast agricultural industry in California.

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by toughguy

So assume California secceeds, then instantly has to start paying tariffs on exported goods to the U.S...They would no longer have the immense competitive advantage of unencumbered trade with the rest of the U.S. The idea of California being "held back" by the rest of the country is laughable.

Honestly these secession scenarios are ridiculous, poorly-thought out fantasies conceived by uninformed children.

Actually I think California would do very well as a separate nation but that does not mean I favor succession and actually view those who promote that idea as childish\ unrealistic.

But resentment toward the federal government is not restricted to California. The example I used may seem a little bit silly but that doesn't mean it isn't a concern to some people. In 1996 the voters in California approved medicinal marijuana but the DEA did everything to obstruct the decision by raiding dispensaries and pot farms, threatening landlords that the government would audit them if they didn't kick out dispensaries, etc. This battle continued right up until Obama became president.

Now California will decide if marijuana will be totally legalized and tax it like other products. But recent information suggests that if California does pass Proposition 19 that the feds will stop the implementation because the federal law considers marijuana as a serious narcotic. So there are people in California angry that if legalization passes that the federal government will sue the state.

To Californio Sur: I agree with your recent post. And the attitude both of us have about knowing positive things about where we're from(California for you I assume and Im from New York City) but being to appreciate and respect other places in the USA/world, and not automatically look down at other states or if someone is from another place, and being to see the positives of other places.

And from what I remember that was said earlier in this thread by someone else, 75% of America's economic output comes from the other places in the USA, which is a lot. However, 25% to come from California and New York City is a lot too.

Some examples: Washington D.C., Boston/Massachusetts, Texas, Florida, Seattle Washington, Atlanta Georgia, Minneapolis Minnesota, Philadelphia Pennsylvania, Charlotte North Carolina, the agricultural regions in the Great Plains, Midwest etc.

+1 in rep(If you care about the reputation points lol).

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by afonega1

Those are very good points.Of course I have a counter.

I welcome that.

With the new smaller California.The drain of Mexico and illegal immigrants will hit even harder without the Federal Government.

The fact that Arizona has to create its own harsh laws shows that the Fed isnt doing anything about the issue either.

Furthermore, California could implement its own border controls that would probably be better than what bureaucrats 3,000 miles away try to force on us.

The Illegal Immigrant issue is a non issue imo.

(of the smaller u.S.).Where will all these computer geeks come from?

From where they've been coming from-India and China.

Furthermore, Stanford, Berkeley, Cal Tech, UCLA et al are Internationally reknowned research universities that will not have any trouble continuing to attract the best and the brightest from around the world.

California, btw has 10 Million foreign born residents, a good number of whom are highly educated and very successful here in the US.

Back to military power.California would lose much of its aviation industry and related jobs because Boeing is head quartered in Chicago, Lockheed-Martin in Maryland.

This presents us the opportunity to develop a military that we think we need-not one that is forced on us by an oppressive regime 3,000 miles away.

Furthermore, George Bush I closed most of our military installations because he hates California but instead of destroying our economy like he was hoping, California rose to the occasion and had unprecedented economic growth.

We'll be fine militarily. The $300 Billion we won't have to send to DC will be more than enough to finance a military.

An issue yes, but not a big one.

California would need a military.Oh thats right..You have the Terminator/Commando for a Governor

We also have the ingenuity and resources to build a world class military that would be among the strongest in the world. No doubt.

The cars people buy will come from plants in Tennesee,Georgia,Michigan,South Carolina,Alabama etc...

So we can't have anymore cars?

Los Angeles is the most lucrative auto market in the world-no automaker in their right mind is going to stop selling to LA.

Lastly where will it get it oil from?

Being free from US control, we can negotiate oil contracts with countries such as Venezuela and Mexico, not to mention Arab States and Russia.

Also, Chevron, the World's 3rd largest Oil Company, with assets all over the planet, is a Bay Area-based company.

Something tells me we'll be okay on this front as well.

[censusdata]

Cities need rural areas to grow their food for them

Rural areas need city tax dollars to build their infrastructure

It's a pretty good mutual relationship

[ladarron]

Why did I make this thread!?!

The ladarron:

So you regret creating this thread?