Would Cleveland/Northeast Ohio Be Better Off if it Were Its Own State? (Columbus: construction, living in)

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

So it's Columbus' fault that they were able to attract high-paying businesses (most of which have zero to do with state government)? Again, it's a little strange to be holding a city in a negative view simply because it was able to build on its own strengths. Why couldn't Cleveland do the same? Does the city hold zero responsibility for its own future?

I'm not talking about the private sector employees. Duh.

I'm talking about the hundreds, perhaps thousands of high-paid (and even middle-class) employees that work for Ohio State and State of Ohio government.

I think I've made it clear that I've been talking about the public sector the entire time. I don't really understand your need to create strawman arguments other than to distract from the real discussion here.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by 1watertiger

jbcmh81, i never said its columbus fault. (?)

Sorry, I should've been more clear. It seems that the differing opinions in this thread seem to contradict each other, not that you are necessarily blaming Columbus.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

This is such whiny hyperbole. If the city of Cleveland and its residents claim that they have no prominent role in the decline, then I'm a Nigerian prince who just needs $1,000 dollars.

There's nothing "whiny" about it. Of course Cleveland is partly to blame for its own problems, including the corruption and one-party domination over the past few decades. And being too invested in manufacturing (which was a huge industry for several decades) is an unfortunate situation that was beyond the city's control.. However my point is that if it were the capital of Ohio, with all of the perks that come with such a distinction, the city would be better off and would have weathered the downturn much more easily.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

Well, Cleveland has done the same. Only, it did it while Columbus was still knee deep in cow****.

Contrary to what appears to be your belief, people in Cleveland don't have much in the way of animosity towards Columbus (I know I certainly don't -- Cincy either, really). However, it is a little naive of a lot of it's residents/transplants to use statements like it being able "to build on it's own strengths" without acknowledging that one of its major core "strengths" is the boatload of revenue it retains from places like NEO every single year. Columbus' two largest economic contributors (read: employers) are both heavily or ENTIRELY funded by state revenue. And, while Cleveland and its surrounding area most certainly do hold the lion's share of the responsibility for their own future, those in Columbus must at least acknowledge that the inflow of the rest of Ohio's revenue is indeed a major advantage for them and an advantage that no other municipality really enjoys.

Where is your proof of this? Where are the numbers? Most of the Clevelanders in this thread strike me as whiny and irrationally jealous of something they can't even prove is true. Further, it's entirely petty to sit there and demand that Columbus give up some of its economic strengths in the ridiculous belief that Cleveland will suddenly blossom. Should Columbus residents be angry that Cleveland has the medical facilities that it does? Please. Get a grip, Clevelanders, and look in the mirror.

And for the last time, the vast majority of Columbus area residents don't work for OSU or state/federal government.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

I'm not talking about the private sector employees. Duh.

I'm talking about the hundreds, perhaps thousands of high-paid (and even middle-class) employees that work for Ohio State and State of Ohio government.

I think I've made it clear that I've been talking about the public sector the entire time. I don't really understand your need to create strawman arguments other than to distract from the real discussion here.

The Cleveland Clinic alone employs more people than state government in Columbus. High-paying jobs are high-paying jobs, no matter the source. Clearly it's very convenient to blame Columbus for all your problems. It's human nature to deny personal responsibility. But you can't prove any of this is true. I've asked countless times for any evidence and you've ignored it repeatedly. Shocking. To admit you have no evidence destroys your base premise. You're wrong. Cleveland needs to own its problems just like any other city on the gd planet. Get over it.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

There's nothing "whiny" about it. Of course Cleveland is partly to blame for its own problems, including the corruption and one-party domination over the past few decades. And being too invested in manufacturing (which was a huge industry for several decades) is an unfortunate situation that was beyond the city's control.. However my point is that if it were the capital of Ohio, with all of the perks that come with such a distinction, the city would be better off and would have weathered the downturn much more easily.

Partly? Seriously? And it's not the capital, it never will be the capital. Move on. And I'm also fascinated by your logic. If being a capital was all one city needed to succeed, they would all be their respective states' most successful cities. They are not, not at all. Being a capital would not have guaranteed that the same problems that plagued Cleveland over the years would not still have happened. Being a capital would not have meant no corruption, no single-minded industry, etc. You make huge assumptions that are neither supported by evidence or the reality of how cities function.

[The Cactus Leaguer]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Partly? Seriously? And it's not the capital, it never will be the capital. Move on. And I'm also fascinated by your logic. If being a capital was all one city needed to succeed, they would all be their respective states' most successful cities. They are not, not at all.

Any objective analysis will show that cities with a large university and government employment base has fared much better during the recent economic downturn than average.

It is also a fact that some corporations prefer to locate near large universities or state capitals along with the amenities and stable infrastructures they provide.

That being said, anyone who claims that this the sole factor in determining the relative success of Columbus (or lack thereof for Cleveland) is being delusional. But that wasn't the original intent of this thread... it posed the question of whether Cleveland and/or NE Ohio would be better off if it were its own state?

My answer? (not that it means anything) Probably a little bit, but not nearly enough to offset the hassle factor involved in making it happen.

[czb2004]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

I say that all the time. Cleveland doesn't belong in podunk Ohio.

I don't think the Columbus intentionally sabotages us though. That would be just ludicrous.

You could say the same thing about any state! Every state has urban and rural areas, democrat and republican, rich and poor, etc... Chicago has downstate, Pennsylvania has Appalachia, California has the interior part of the state... You have sprawling metropolises like Atlanta and then poorer rural areas in Georgia. The fact is the divide is not nearly as great in Ohio as in these other states. In every corner of the state except the southeast there is a metro area. For the most part they are all middle income, middle of the road political areas so there really isn't as big of a difference as you make it seem.

[cali3448893]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Happened to catch this pic last night.

NBC Nightly Newscast.
Don't almost all weather maps by the national media look like this? Why?
Because Cleveland is the most well known city in Ohio. This is no disrespect to anywhere else in Ohio. It just is.
That's why the magnifying glass is always on us. I assume it is a holdover from "the old days" when Cleveland was the 5th largest city in the country.

They only show the cities with the weather. They show cincinnati sometimes and columbus sometimes even toledo.

[cali3448893]

cleveland and cincinnati to be in its own state. Leave columbus dayton and toledo in ohio.