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The only speculation I need that which is based on real life experience and communication with others from the time when malls like Euclid Sq and Randall park were good malls but fell due to theft and shoppers not feeling comfortable there. Unlike those trying to argue with me, I actually shopped at Euclid sq and Randall park and remember when they were nice malls. I don't recall ANY conversation with anyone EVER where the excuse for Randall and Euclid mall closing were "it was such a pleasure shopping there the year before they closed! I can't believe they closed such a lovely safe mall! Thank goodness I can drive an extra 20 minutes to go to beachwood!"
If people would stop being blind and allowing their undying loyalty to Cleveland cloud their mind, they might just be able to accept the fact that these malls just so happen to be near Cleveland, and they just so happened to close because they turned into undesirable places to shop due to theft and because people didn't feel safe shopping there anymore.
Theft wasn't necessarily the main and simplest reason Randall Mall closed. They were a great mall, until places like Beachwood Mall, Legacy Village, etc were built, and business was drawn from Randall. This lead Randall to becoming a lower scale mall, attracting lower class inner city people to the mall, which then caused all of the crime, which lead to the demise of Randall Mall.
Beachwood Place does need more visible security; even the biggest boosters must acknowledge that. Beyond the enormous amount of theft (in particular Dillards), other stores have had surges the last few years.
In terms of an actual decline, there are only a few vacancies (once the jewelry store closes) and there are enough mid tier/high end stores to draw in a good crowd. Having gone there for decades, the mall still feels stable and safe despite the obvious demographic changes. Randall Mall and Severance it is not.
Crime is crime, it happens everywhere. Do you think people would want to shoplift at higher class malls with expensive stores, or lower class malls like Richmond Square, where there aren't any great stores?
Beachwood Mall is at near 100% occupancy. When I went there a few days ago, there was some small chain store that was closing, but it's the whole nationwide chain that is also closing. I'm sure that store will be filled with a new tenant very soon. Other than that, Beachwood Mall is doing great.
Crime is crime, it happens everywhere. Do you think people would want to shoplift at higher class malls with expensive stores, or lower class malls like Richmond Square, where there aren't any great stores?
Beachwood Mall is at near 100% occupancy. When I went there a few days ago, there was some small chain store that was closing, but it's the whole nationwide chain that is also closing. I'm sure that store will be filled with a new tenant very soon. Other than that, Beachwood Mall is doing great.
It's ok if you were shopping at Wet Seal.
Excess development tends to pick off the weakest link. North Randall has bitten it, next in line are places like Richmond. Beachwood is still closer to the front of the pack.
Your shoplifting observation isn't a good one, though - if that were the case, Wal-Mart wouldn't be a staple in the news blotter and we wouldn't see shoplifting prosecution signs at the Salvation Army. The Richmond-Beachwood gulf most likely has as much to do with foot traffic and opportunity (number of stores) as anything.
Excess development tends to pick off the weakest link. North Randall has bitten it, next in line are places like Richmond. Beachwood is still closer to the front of the pack.
Your shoplifting observation isn't a good one, though - if that were the case, Wal-Mart wouldn't be a staple in the news blotter and we wouldn't see shoplifting prosecution signs at the Salvation Army. The Richmond-Beachwood gulf most likely has as much to do with foot traffic and opportunity (number of stores) as anything.
Not sure that a wet seal had to do with this, but I'm positive that Beachwood is not a declining mall, and it will not decline any time soon.
Beachwood Mall has some shoplifting here and there, but I've never heard of any place that never gets some sort of crime.
Blame the NEXT store - and the Cedar Road bus stop for that..
Public transportation has long been blamed as a culprit of economic decline and increased crime, not just in Cleveland but in every major city and unfairly so. There are so many comments in the Sun News/Cleveland.com every time some incident happens at Beachwood Place that call for the curtailing of public bus service to that mall. As an urban planner and avid transit rider, I don't see that as the solution at all.
There might be good honest patrons of the mall that don't own a car and would not be able to shop there, There may be store employees that rely on the bus to get to work as well. By denying these patrons and employees the ability to get to Beachwood Place, stores might lose business and decline.
This is unless Beachwood Place draws mainly from the nearby cities and towns like Beachwood, Lyndhurst, Shaker Heights or Pepper Pike but then the argument against the bus stop is pointless then because the bus stop really had little effect on the mall's population.
I also find it unbelievable that thugs would rob a store or mug a person at the mall and then run off to the nearby bus stop to wait for the bus. More likely they would hasten into a getaway POV and drive off in a jiffy.
According to my 2012 RTA system map, Beachwood Place only has two bus routes serving it, the #32 coming from University Circle RTA Station and the #94 running between Euclid and Highland Hills. I don't know the frequencies of both - a Cleveland local can fill in on that - but two bus routes is not a lot for service to the mall. This adds to the argument that most patrons probably drive to the mall. Now, the recent New Year's brawl that happened involved two teens and a grownup that came from Bedford or so said the news. Bedford is far to the south of Beachwood as you all know and there is no direct bus connection to Beachwood Place from Bedford. I suppose someone from Bedford could drive to Highland Hills to catch the #94 or take a long ride on another route such as the #40, change for the #32 at Cedar Road in University Heights, and then continue to Beachwood Place. Or they could simply just drive to the mall and park there which is what I assume this group did and what other past troublemakers had done too. Beachwood Place is also near the Interstate which is a good thing in that it attracts even more business from faraway places and a not so good thing in that it attracts faraway even out-of-state thieves and bandits. One of the shoplifting incidents at the Beachwood Saks a few months ago was blamed on such interstate thieves and so it's not fair to just blame immediate locals who ride public transportation for thievery.
Public transportation has long been blamed as a culprit of economic decline and increased crime, not just in Cleveland but in every major city and unfairly so. There are so many comments in the Sun News/Cleveland.com every time some incident happens at Beachwood Place that call for the curtailing of public bus service to that mall. As an urban planner and avid transit rider, I don't see that as the solution at all.
There might be good honest patrons of the mall that don't own a car and would not be able to shop there, There may be store employees that rely on the bus to get to work as well. By denying these patrons and employees the ability to get to Beachwood Place, stores might lose business and decline.
This is unless Beachwood Place draws mainly from the nearby cities and towns like Beachwood, Lyndhurst, Shaker Heights or Pepper Pike but then the argument against the bus stop is pointless then because the bus stop really had little effect on the mall's population.
I also find it unbelievable that thugs would rob a store or mug a person at the mall and then run off to the nearby bus stop to wait for the bus. More likely they would hasten into a getaway POV and drive off in a jiffy.
According to my 2012 RTA system map, Beachwood Place only has two bus routes serving it, the #32 coming from University Circle RTA Station and the #94 running between Euclid and Highland Hills. I don't know the frequencies of both - a Cleveland local can fill in on that - but two bus routes is not a lot for service to the mall. This adds to the argument that most patrons probably drive to the mall. Now, the recent New Year's brawl that happened involved two teens and a grownup that came from Bedford or so said the news. Bedford is far to the south of Beachwood as you all know and there is no direct bus connection to Beachwood Place from Bedford. I suppose someone from Bedford could drive to Highland Hills to catch the #94 or take a long ride on another route such as the #40, change for the #32 at Cedar Road in University Heights, and then continue to Beachwood Place. Or they could simply just drive to the mall and park there which is what I assume this group did and what other past troublemakers had done too. Beachwood Place is also near the Interstate which is a good thing in that it attracts even more business from faraway places and a not so good thing in that it attracts faraway even out-of-state thieves and bandits. One of the shoplifting incidents at the Beachwood Saks a few months ago was blamed on such interstate thieves and so it's not fair to just blame immediate locals who ride public transportation for thievery.
Public transportation has long been blamed as a culprit of economic decline and increased crime, not just in Cleveland but in every major city and unfairly so. There are so many comments in the Sun News/Cleveland.com every time some incident happens at Beachwood Place that call for the curtailing of public bus service to that mall. As an urban planner and avid transit rider, I don't see that as the solution at all.
There might be good honest patrons of the mall that don't own a car and would not be able to shop there, There may be store employees that rely on the bus to get to work as well. By denying these patrons and employees the ability to get to Beachwood Place, stores might lose business and decline.
This is unless Beachwood Place draws mainly from the nearby cities and towns like Beachwood, Lyndhurst, Shaker Heights or Pepper Pike but then the argument against the bus stop is pointless then because the bus stop really had little effect on the mall's population.
I also find it unbelievable that thugs would rob a store or mug a person at the mall and then run off to the nearby bus stop to wait for the bus. More likely they would hasten into a getaway POV and drive off in a jiffy.
According to my 2012 RTA system map, Beachwood Place only has two bus routes serving it, the #32 coming from University Circle RTA Station and the #94 running between Euclid and Highland Hills. I don't know the frequencies of both - a Cleveland local can fill in on that - but two bus routes is not a lot for service to the mall. This adds to the argument that most patrons probably drive to the mall. Now, the recent New Year's brawl that happened involved two teens and a grownup that came from Bedford or so said the news. Bedford is far to the south of Beachwood as you all know and there is no direct bus connection to Beachwood Place from Bedford. I suppose someone from Bedford could drive to Highland Hills to catch the #94 or take a long ride on another route such as the #40, change for the #32 at Cedar Road in University Heights, and then continue to Beachwood Place. Or they could simply just drive to the mall and park there which is what I assume this group did and what other past troublemakers had done too. Beachwood Place is also near the Interstate which is a good thing in that it attracts even more business from faraway places and a not so good thing in that it attracts faraway even out-of-state thieves and bandits. One of the shoplifting incidents at the Beachwood Saks a few months ago was blamed on such interstate thieves and so it's not fair to just blame immediate locals who ride public transportation for thievery.
Agreed. As one who takes the #32 to Beachwood I wouldn't want to see the bus service stopped to any of the malls. I live in Cleveland Heights and don't own a car. I have taken the #32 bus to Legacy Mall but Beachwood Mall is just down the road a few stops beyond. The #32 runs on weekends every hour and on weekdays about every 40 minutes.
I have this mental picture of the bad guys standing at the bus stop with their loot, bus schedules in hand waiting for the bus to arrive. Unless they have really good timing, I don't think that's going to happen.
If you take away bus service to malls, people like me won't be able to shop at either Legacy, Beachwood or Richmond Mall where the #7 takes me. That one goes right into the mall.
And what about strip malls like the big one at University Square? The bus passes right by there as it continues on to Beachwood. So in order to stop public transportation from going there the bus would have to either make a detour off to other streets to avoid passing the mall or no have stops within a five mile radius so people couldn't take it to that mall. Having a bus stop right at a mall isn't going to deter people from taking a bus to a mall.
The idea of stopping buses from having a stop at malls or any stores is just plain ridiculous. It's not going to stop crime. Bad guys have cars, not all shoppers do.
I work at Beachwood Place. I know what Beachwood Place used to be like, and what is now. There's a lot of theft, and a lot of stores are closing (thankfully a bunch of crappy ones), a stores are closing as well. When certain crowds of people come ginto my store I get a bad vibe, and have to be on full alert. I shop there a lot as well. I never had the vibe before, but sometimes I don't feel safe walking to my car. Especially with an inside look of the mall as an associate. What if the people who try to shoplift from my store try to mug me? The other day I was carrying a bunch of bags from Saks, Lacoste, J Crew, Nordstrom, Abercrombie, Lucky, Aldo, etc... I'm an upper middle class white kid in a more affluent suburb. I shouldn't feel unsafe.
I work at Beachwood Place. I know what Beachwood Place used to be like, and what is now. There's a lot of theft, and a lot of stores are closing (thankfully a bunch of crappy ones), a stores are closing as well. When certain crowds of people come ginto my store I get a bad vibe, and have to be on full alert. I shop there a lot as well. I never had the vibe before, but sometimes I don't feel safe walking to my car. Especially with an inside look of the mall as an associate. What if the people who try to shoplift from my store try to mug me? The other day I was carrying a bunch of bags from Saks, Lacoste, J Crew, Nordstrom, Abercrombie, Lucky, Aldo, etc... I'm an upper middle class white kid in a more affluent suburb. I shouldn't feel unsafe.
Something tells me you've lived a very sheltered life. There's a huge difference between shoplifting and mugging. You really should try to get out of your comfort zone and see what the rest of the world is really like. It's not as dangerous as you believe.
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