Current Actions of Cleveland Police and Rapid Transit Police (Euclid: 2014, crime rate)

[Nomad99]

I created a sincere thread the other day regarding recent brutality by both the CPD and RTA Police and some Mod named 'Yac' saw fit to shut it down. I was also admonished to just not come to NE OH as I wouldn't make a good neighbor. Well, perhaps Cleveland somehow lost the only thing it really had going for it back in the 1970's and 1980's: Personal pride and a unique sense of making a bad deal into a good deal.

But seriously folks, I GREW UP IN NE Ohio so have a REAL connection... and the US Justice Dept has sanctioned the CPD (e.g. Justice Dept.: Cleveland police used excessive force - CNN.com) for using "unnecessary and unreasonable force at a significant rate". I truly hope that Clevelanders haven't forgotten a few high-profile examples like the Tamir Rice shooting... and more recently the macho mass pepper spray by some misguided and maleficent RTA cop.

I totally understand parts of Cleveland (and dozens of other US cites) are tough and that Cleveland has one of the highest violent crime rate (Cleveland OH crime rates and statistics - NeighborhoodScout), but I've lived in many of them (Chicago, Detroit, LA, D.C. et. al.) and their PD's have had their issues... but I've not yet heard a string of apparent unjustified "policing" as I've lately heard about the CDP/RTP (Rapid Transit Police). In addition, I lived in the Cleveland area when the crime rate was actually much higher than today (not even discounting certain under-reporting then)... yet I knew a number of CPD officers personally back then and they were committed to doing all they could within the law.

The purpose of my last thread was honestly to convince me that I was off-base on this... if not, thanks but I'll revise my plans to move my family and (virtual) business to some other locale (and there are literally hundreds) where we can count on law enforcement to do their (tough) jobs as best they can under the US Constitution and principles upon which this fine nation was founded.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Nomad99

I created a sincere thread the other day regarding recent brutality by both the CPD and RTA Police and some Mod named 'Yac' saw fit to shut it down. I was also admonished to just not come to NE OH as I wouldn't make a good neighbor. Well, perhaps Cleveland somehow lost the only thing it really had going for it back in the 1970's and 1980's: Personal pride and a unique sense of making a bad deal into a good deal.

But seriously folks, I GREW UP IN NE Ohio so have a REAL connection... and the US Justice Dept has sanctioned the CPD (e.g. Justice Dept.: Cleveland police used excessive force - CNN.com) for using "unnecessary and unreasonable force at a significant rate". I truly hope that Clevelanders haven't forgotten a few high-profile examples like the Tamir Rice shooting... and more recently the macho mass pepper spray by some misguided and maleficent RTA cop.

I totally understand parts of Cleveland (and dozens of other US cites) are tough and that Cleveland has one of the highest violent crime rate (Cleveland OH crime rates and statistics - NeighborhoodScout), but I've lived in many of them (Chicago, Detroit, LA, D.C. et. al.) and their PD's have had their issues... but I've not yet heard a string of apparent unjustified "policing" as I've lately heard about the CDP/RTP (Rapid Transit Police). In addition, I lived in the Cleveland area when the crime rate was actually much higher than today (not even discounting certain under-reporting then)... yet I knew a number of CPD officers personally back then and they were committed to doing all they could within the law.

The purpose of my last thread was honestly to convince me that I was off-base on this... if not, thanks but I'll revise my plans to move my family and (virtual) business to some other locale (and there are literally hundreds) where we can count on law enforcement to do their (tough) jobs as best they can under the US Constitution and principles upon which this fine nation was founded.

There are lots of places in Greater Cleveland besides Cleveland where you wouldn't have to deal with the Cleveland Police Department.

[Nomad99]

Originally Posted by WRnative

There are lots of places in Greater Cleveland besides Cleveland where you wouldn't have to deal with the Cleveland Police Department.

That's a great point. But my thinking is more around the ethos (if that's not now antiquated/deprecated) of current Greater Clevelanders. Also, Cleveland (the city) truly does offer a great deal, from museums to playhouse square to Severance Hall to professional sports (plus the Browns who I adore ;-) to great dining, shopping, nite life et. al.

One quick example, rewinding some 35 years, my then girlfriend (actually we're still friends but both now far away) and I were strolling down Euclid and E 12th when 2 guys (still not sure why as they didn't look strung out) jumped my girlfriend. BTW she was from Brecksville but spent a lot of time downtown, so really doubt that she (at least intentionally) provoked them. Anyway in the tussle one of them ended up falling through a plate glass window. A mounted CPD officer raced over while calling an ambulance while dismounting (impressively) and tackling the other perpetrator. We pressed charges and both were convicted.

My point of the above story was that "stuff" happens and you need to do what you need to do... and the police are there to help. My concern is that now "stuff" is happening BECAUSE of bad policing... if you expect the police to prevent "stuff" from happening without getting involved or 'policing the police' then surely you won't have a positive outcome longer-term IMHO.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Nomad99

That's a great point. But my thinking is more around the ethos (if that's not now antiquated/deprecated) of current Greater Clevelanders. Also, Cleveland (the city) truly does offer a great deal, from museums to playhouse square to Severance Hall to professional sports (plus the Browns who I adore ;-) to great dining, shopping, nite life et. al.

One quick example, rewinding some 35 years, my then girlfriend (actually we're still friends but both now far away) and I were strolling down Euclid and E 12th when 2 guys (still not sure why as they didn't look strung out) jumped my girlfriend. BTW she was from Brecksville but spent a lot of time downtown, so really doubt that she (at least intentionally) provoked them. Anyway in the tussle one of them ended up falling through a plate glass window. A mounted CPD officer raced over while calling an ambulance while dismounting (impressively) and tackling the other perpetrator. We pressed charges and both were convicted.

My point of the above story was that "stuff" happens and you need to do what you need to do... and the police are there to help. My concern is that now "stuff" is happening BECAUSE of bad policing... if you expect the police to prevent "stuff" from happening without getting involved or 'policing the police' then surely you won't have a positive outcome longer-term IMHO.

So you are not relocating to Cleveland with your business because of the CPD and RTA PD? Seriously? The police are under fire nationwide; this isn't just a Cleveland thing although Cleveland, along with many other cities, are getting a lot of attention for its police department/s.

[maxmodder]

One way to look at it is that if the perps would get it through their damn head to not commit criminal acts, then the police wouldn't have to resort to such drastic measures in the first place.

It's not just the police that are the victims in all this. We have Cleveland RTA bus drivers for example getting suspended because they are assulted and chose to defend themselves. The system in its entirety is broken and anyone who supports it in its current state should rethink their position. The presidency is such a joke that you even have Donald Trump running LOL!

[L2DB]

Originally Posted by Kamms

So you are not relocating to Cleveland with your business because of the CPD and RTA PD? Seriously? The police are under fire nationwide; this isn't just a Cleveland thing although Cleveland, along with many other cities, are getting a lot of attention for its police department/s.

Absolutely this.

IMO, this thread is an excuse to argue under the guise of a "legitimate" concern about moving back to CLE. Or do you really think some random suburbanite in Rocky River or Willoughby or wherever has the same mentality as the X% of bad CPD police officers?

[maxmodder]

Are we going to pretend that these CLE police wouldn't rather be working in a suburb like Rocky River or Willoughby instead?

Less of a risk to be shot at and more pay.

[bjimmy24]

Cops are thugs. This is news?

[burritoKURUMA]

Originally Posted by maxmodder

Are we going to pretend that these CLE police wouldn't rather be working in a suburb like Rocky River or Willoughby instead?

Less of a risk to be shot at and more pay.

Right but you gotta take the whole picture. Who are you gonna get to shoot at in Rocky River or Willoughby? The pay cut and safety risk is the price you gotta pay for the opportunity to stand on the roof of a car and shoot through the windshield at unarmed people.

You can't have it all; you pick and choose what's important.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by L2DB

Absolutely this.

IMO, this thread is an excuse to argue under the guise of a "legitimate" concern about moving back to CLE. Or do you really think some random suburbanite in Rocky River or Willoughby or wherever has the same mentality as the X% of bad CPD police officers?

I think it's a guise as well. The OP posted several months ago about considering a relo to Cleveland but for the police. Make up your mind. I think it is an attempt to give Cleveland a back-hand by saying "I was considering a relocation to Cleveland but won't because of its police department."