ESPN 30 for 30: BELIEVELAND (Cleveland, Prospect: best, summer, Indians)

[ZnGuy]

As a typical insecure Cleveland sports fan, hope we're not gonna see another Cleveland disappointment, I'll save a name for it , 'The Collapse', hope I'm wrong.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by ZnGuy

As a typical insecure Cleveland sports fan, hope we're not gonna see another Cleveland disappointment, I'll save a name for it , 'The Collapse', hope I'm wrong.

The last two games have been tough. But can Toronto win on the road? Doesn't seem like it.

Might not be bad for the Cavs to face this adversity now. The finals won't be easy either.

[bjimmy24]

NBA title won’t revitalize Cleveland

Thoughts?

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

NBA title won’t revitalize Cleveland

Thoughts?

"Yes, an NBA title would make the city feel a little better, but what Cleveland really needs is a commitment to greatness that matches that of its most visible hometown hero."

Just find it kind of ironic coming from a guy who hasn't lived in Cleveland since the mid 1980s and who was shocked to go home recently and find parts of the east side abandoned. I mean, it's been that way for decades now.

So I guess I don't really disagree, I just don't like that they always go to the ex-Clevelanders to write about Cleveland and present only the negative things in national press.

I think the good things and the bad things are equally real. I don't like irrational boosterism about a city that has very real problems, but the way the author just fits the developments of downtown. the west side, and University Circle into ONE SENTENCE, seems to really downplay another reality.

I mean, these are areas that I (mid to late 20s) am shocked to see back. I have no recollection of the Flats being a destination. There was nothing on E. 4. My parents are even more astounded than I am. They saw the decline happen before their eyes. Yet, they're still around and more excited than ever, despite the fact that they are a bit older. I don't like how the only recognition of this you see nationally are easy to disregard travel articles. Any substantial writing on Cleveland from a place like ESPN typically presents a very negative narrative.

[theurbanfiles]

I think the shock was as much "writer's touch" as anything, as it has indeed been that way for a while. This guy certainly did mention some positives too, but I agree that many people wait on sports, or politicians, or whatever, as saviors, when ultimately, the best way to start making an improvement in yourself or your city is with you. Obviously, drastic changes are needed, not just in urban Cleveland, but Denver, and urban and suburban America in general. I think it's unfair to characterize all of this as necessarily being lack of action on account of many residents in urban areas, as so many have had so many circumstances. Honestly, I really think mentorship is huge though, and is something I hope becomes bigger. Could you just imagine, if, with Cleveland's regional size, if each family committed to mentoring one at risk youth, perhaps once every couple weeks, caring about them, providing advice, holding accountable etc. Can you imagine what kind of impact that would have on that generation? LeBron is already doing so much more off the hardwood with his programs across Northeast Ohio, and it likely will, at least in some small way, positively impact the lives of thousands of children. So much of the narrative is on LeBron in basketball, when really much more should be focused on that.

I see what he was trying to say, but I agree, there are also many, many positives around town too.

As per championship effect itself, it certainly isn't a make or break, but would it help? YES. Basic concept of Flutie Effect. It matters. It gives the people around town something to brag about. Take a look at how it has changed landscape in colleges. Granted, urban redevelopment and schools rising happens everywhere, but visit Spokane and Gonzaga University 15 years ago, and do so again now, and I'm assuming one would be shocked. Sports certainly had a hand in that. I would say it helped Pittsburgh, and personally, I would venture it actually really strongly benefited Boston too. Think about it: The cities are probably roughly equal in terms of offerings/amenities, in fact I might even say Philadelphia offered more in and around it. But yet, Boston, especially, and really ONLY recently, has become a much bigger tourist draw. I think Boston's sports titles, and Philadelphia's relative lack of them, had at least something to do with that. There are many other factors at play, but the point is, it helps.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

NBA title won’t revitalize Cleveland

Thoughts?

This guy went to Glenville High and he's shocked at the condition of his old neighborhood/s? As the former editor of the Denver Post this guy is this out of touch with conditions in many U.S. cities like Cleveland? Hmm...how could anyone this clueless be the editor of a major U.S. City newspaper and write passive-aggressive stories in something called "The Undefeated''? Looks like he graduated from Glenville in about 1972. A time of major racial turmoil in Cleveland and especially at Glenville High School. Again, hard to believe he's just finding out about the conditions in his old neighborhoods where his parent/s, family and friends still apparently live.

He repeats the same old refrain about the conditions on the east side and hopes the media portrays the full story about Cleveland during the RNC. Not sure that's a great idea given the hold the Democratic Party has on Cleveland. Many old industrial cities are seeing a resurgence in downtown core areas (ie Chicago) and yet many neighborhoods are in shambles and crime-ridden. Nothing unique about Cleveland there.

This is a lame and tired story; like anyone thinks the Cavs and LeBron are going to revitalize Cleveland. Cleveland can't even enjoy a run for the NBA Finals without this same old b.s. story.

No matter what the upbeat story may be about Cleveland, there's always the ''but it still has a long way to go'' etc. Any and all good news about Cleveland has to be qualified with the bummer story.

Mr. Moore should follow his own advice as described in the conclusion of his ''observations'': move home to Cleveland like The King did; otherwise, he should zip it. Clevelanders are well aware of the negative issues they face. Thanks for the reminder Editor Moore....please.

Notice there is no mention of two defining upheavals in Cleveland's history that spurred much of the resulting despair Moore mentions in 2016: Hough Riot 1966 and, from his own community, the Glenville Riot (Shoot-Out) in 1968. And this guy acts like he just realized Cleveland's woes. Hope his ''reporting'' career is over.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by cavsfan137

I think the shock was as much "writer's touch" as anything, as it has indeed been that way for a while. This guy certainly did mention some positives too, but I agree that many people wait on sports, or politicians, or whatever, as saviors, when ultimately, the best way to start making an improvement in yourself or your city is with you. Obviously, drastic changes are needed, not just in urban Cleveland, but Denver, and urban and suburban America in general. I think it's unfair to characterize all of this as necessarily being lack of action on account of many residents in urban areas, as so many have had so many circumstances. Honestly, I really think mentorship is huge though, and is something I hope becomes bigger. Could you just imagine, if, with Cleveland's regional size, if each family committed to mentoring one at risk youth, perhaps once every couple weeks, caring about them, providing advice, holding accountable etc. Can you imagine what kind of impact that would have on that generation? LeBron is already doing so much more off the hardwood with his programs across Northeast Ohio, and it likely will, at least in some small way, positively impact the lives of thousands of children. So much of the narrative is on LeBron in basketball, when really much more should be focused on that.

I see what he was trying to say, but I agree, there are also many, many positives around town too.

As per championship effect itself, it certainly isn't a make or break, but would it help? YES. Basic concept of Flutie Effect. It matters. It gives the people around town something to brag about. Take a look at how it has changed landscape in colleges. Granted, urban redevelopment and schools rising happens everywhere, but visit Spokane and Gonzaga University 15 years ago, and do so again now, and I'm assuming one would be shocked. Sports certainly had a hand in that. I would say it helped Pittsburgh, and personally, I would venture it actually really strongly benefited Boston too. Think about it: The cities are probably roughly equal in terms of offerings/amenities, in fact I might even say Philadelphia offered more in and around it. But yet, Boston, especially, and really ONLY recently, has become a much bigger tourist draw. I think Boston's sports titles, and Philadelphia's relative lack of them, had at least something to do with that. There are many other factors at play, but the point is, it helps.

The problem is, as I've stated before: fatherless America. No amount of ''mentorship'' from a family living in, from your point, say Aurora, for some poor kid in Glenville is going to fix this social problem.

Root out the problem to remedy the social fallout will fix this.

[theurbanfiles]

I'm not saying that isn't big and that mentorship is everything. You're right that there's still systemic issues. One person can make a difference, and that can't be underestimated (i.e. If it wasn't for Frankie Walker, LeBron, a fatherless kid from a tough background may never have become LeBron. Agree with other points though.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by cavsfan137

I'm not saying that isn't big and that mentorship is everything. You're right that there's still systemic issues. One person can make a difference, and that can't be underestimated (i.e. If it wasn't for Frankie Walker, LeBron, a fatherless kid from a tough background may never have become LeBron. Agree with other points though.

I agree as well that all it takes is one person in someone's life. It's just so many out there with no guidance. Poor kids.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by ZnGuy

As a typical insecure Cleveland sports fan, hope we're not gonna see another Cleveland disappointment, I'll save a name for it , 'The Collapse', hope I'm wrong.

Oh no...there's a name for it already! Let's go CAVS...Game 5, 40 minutes away. Nervous here as well.