Cleveland "rebirth" is somewhat true but generally overblown, and certainly not new (Columbus: real estate, 2015)

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by kpl1228

I agree with all of what everyone's saying, except the statement of how no one was in the flats or warehouse district 20 years ago. I played in bar bands in the flats with boats parked four deep and people eating at the warehouse district and partying in the flats......Exactly 20 years ago this summer. During the glory days of the Indians....a great time to be playing in a band downtown.
What I guess I was trying to say is that we have always had urban renewal projects and we have always had city fathers branding the renewal with a catchphrase focused on highlighting a rebound from a much worse previous years. Name your decade, there was a downtown or neighborhood revitalization project or two or three. All touting downtown living or improved entertainment or sports facilities or your medium sized skyscraper du jour. And all hyping a "rebirth" and all buying in. Same same.

I hear what you are saying but this ''rebirth'' is different. The current ''rebirth'' includes lots of downtown residential development and not just stadiums and office buildings.

Until the city population actually increases, and now the region, would I use the term ''rebirth'' or ''renaissance''. What the current trend needs is retail, jobs and some commercial skyscrapers.

[ZnGuy]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Galleria has been tanking since the late '90s and TC not much longer after that. Not sure where you've been on the downtown retail scene. Cleveland is not alone in lacking downtown retail but I would expect the retail options to increase as the population increases.

Yep, that's what I'm saying, retail been deterioting for years.

[teacherdad]

Online access to shopping is removing retail more than it's a CLE deal. IMO.

[ohioaninsc]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

According to the latest census estimates, since 2010, Cleveland has seen the slowest rate of population loss since it peaked in 1950 (Cleveland population loss slows; find latest census estimates for every U.S. city, county and state | cleveland.com). That is a very positive sign. It's not just a facade, or a rebranding; our city is very much coming back. The economy is getting stronger, unemployment is very low, investment dollars are moving into the city, and educated young people are coming back. I work in the housing industry, and we see a lot of people moving here from out of state; housing demand is very high, and values are going up.

So even though the population loss is slowing down, its still losing.

I don't think you can call it a comeback until the city population is growing again. It will be very disappointing to me if I see the pop in 2020 is lower than the 2010 census...that to me would not be a good sign w/ all the investment going on.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by ohioaninsc

So even though the population loss is slowing down, its still losing.

I don't think you can call it a comeback until the city population is growing again. It will be very disappointing to me if I see the pop in 2020 is lower than the 2010 census...that to me would not be a good sign w/ all the investment going on.

Think how bad the population loss would be without the current investments.

I'm optimistic about the population showing a gain by 2020 given the current and planned residential construction projects on the boards in the city. West side, downtown, east side, there is a lot of current and planned construction coming.

Not sure who's still leaving Cleveland but recent studies have shown it to be the with low job skills (aka the manufacturing worker fallout that never gained new job skills). This and the fact that Section 8 residents are now being scattered around the county, especially the inner-ring suburbs, as the county population declines. This is what happens in the old industrial, ethnic, great lakes cities completely controlled by local Democrat hacks.

Hopefully some real leadership comes to life in Cleveland, especially in City Hall. Get rid of most of those quasi-work release council members for starters. Can't imagine what a, for example, Mayor Jeff Johnson (convicted felon) would do to the city.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by kpl1228

What I guess I was trying to say is that we have always had urban renewal projects and we have always had city fathers branding the renewal with a catchphrase focused on highlighting a rebound from a much worse previous years. Name your decade, there was a downtown or neighborhood revitalization project or two or three. All touting downtown living or improved entertainment or sports facilities or your medium sized skyscraper du jour. And all hyping a "rebirth" and all buying in. Same same.

Never in Cleveland's history before now have there been three major pro sports venues downtown with the resulting entertaining and dining districts. I don't remember any time that were any where near as many hotel rooms as currently downtown, which is remarkable given the smaller size of the city and the great loss of corporate headquarters downtown.

Cleveland again, never had anything like PlayhouseSquare in the past. You seemingly have little appreciation of the uniqueness of PlayhouseSquare theaters and operations today.

Read this carefully:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g...usesquare.html

The Cleveland Museum of Art is far superior to a even a decade ago. Severance Hall has been greatly improved, with beauty, now superior acoustics and a workable organ. These are remarkable facilities far exceeding their counterparts in most major cities in the U.S. and in Cleveland just 15 years ago.

The Museum of Natural History is being greatly expanded.

Cleveland now has a national park a half hour from the city and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum and we also now have a respectable science museum, featuring the Steamship Mather, one of the best ASME mechanical engineering landmarks in the world.

Holden Arboretum is now one of the best in the country. Blossom Music Center didn't exist a half century ago, and was greatly improved just over a decade ago.

Personally, I don't care much about population, especially as the MSA's population is down only a couple percentage points from its peak. Cleveland is a much more enjoyable city, by far, than at any point in my lifetime, and I have memories of Cleveland stretching back over a half century. Few cities offer Cleveland's amenities at the same cost of living.

It's unfair to compare downtown retail with its glory years, because urban sprawl, freeways, and, now the internet, has greatly transformed retail nationally. Retail experts believe that within 15 years, over 50 percent of retail sales will be transacted online. I'm not certain if even the great retail district in NYC will survive the onslaught in its current glory. Many analysts expect a huge contraction in the nation's department stores.

BTW, it was a pain to drive downtown before freeways in order to shop, even though the department stores were the things of memory, especially during the holidays. At any time, I would take the convenience and magnitude of the retail experience in Mentor with what once existed downtown.

Candidly, I consider your argument a little daft, and certainly contrary to my witness of the transformations that have taken place in the past half century. E.g., do you think Public Square hasn't been vastly transformed and improved?

It sounds like you're describing Detroit, not Cleveland.

Same same? Not. Not. Not.

[JR_C]

I haven't actually been to Cleveland for over 5 years. But I still read this sub-forum, and so have a bit of an idea of what's happening there. So, as a detached observer, I'd say that the Cleveland renaissance/rebirth has been happening--in waves, but still continuous--since the late 80s/early 90s.


There seemed to be a lot of momentum built up in the mid-late 90s with the new stadia, rock hall, etc. In my last years at KSU, in the late 90s, a lot of our coursework focused on downtown. (incidentally, KSU has been focusing more on Youngstown, lately) I remember taking a field trip to the WSM in late 97. While the market was very interesting, as always, the surroundings weren't nearly as nice as they are now.




After graduation, I lost touch with what was happening in Cleveland for about 5 years, until I started participating in online forums like these. At that time, it seemed that some of the momentum of the late 90s had been lost in the first half of the 2000s. But, much of it has clearly returned over the last few years.

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by ZnGuy

I'm downtown couple nights to attend Cavs game, I wanted to pick up some clothing items, not gonna happen downtown these days I guess. I remember years ago Tower City and Galleria had some decent shopping. Seems to all have
faded away..

Malls are fading all over the country. We are starting to see some specialty/high end retail open up downtown, such as Geiger's. Geiger's downtown Cleveland store opens: First look inside (photos) | cleveland.com

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

Malls are fading all over the country. We are starting to see some specialty/high end retail open up downtown, such as Geiger's. Geiger's downtown Cleveland store opens: First look inside (photos) | cleveland.com

Even Geiger's though admits its coming in early to the retail scene with the expectation that business will improve. Let's hope so. Kind of like Heinen's; not expecting block-buster business yet but steady growth as downtown residential as well as visitors increase. The RNC should be a boon for business; that is unless the place is trashed by demonstrators.

Downtown malls have folded in many cities; the Columbus mall, for example, is now a park.

I do expect Tower City to get better though.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Even Geiger's though admits its coming in early to the retail scene with the expectation that business will improve. Let's hope so. Kind of like Heinen's; not expecting block-buster business yet but steady growth as downtown residential as well as visitors increase. The RNC should be a boon for business; that is unless the place is trashed by demonstrators.

Downtown malls have folded in many cities; the Columbus mall, for example, is now a park.

I do expect Tower City to get better though.

Downtown shopping can be kinda overrated too. Downtown Crossing in Boston attracts a lot of druggies and is incredibly seedy at night. Most people have just realized that Amazon is way easier, more convenient, and usually cheaper than going to a mall.