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Old 01-11-2013, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Danville, VA - 3rd Capital of the Confederacy!
203 posts, read 413,593 times
Reputation: 334

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithuania View Post
Go to each cities' respective page here on City-data. The crime statistics on this site show Rocky Mount with a slightly higher crime rate than Greenville (although I must admit I didn't calculate an average).

Be careful when referring to one person's general opinion to base your opinion. Both cities suffer from higher than average crime rate, but Greenville is experiencing more growth.
Thanks. I went ahead and ran out the crime rate averages for both Greenville (598.99) and Rocky Mount (700.54), according to City-Data figures, which cover last decade or so for both cities. BTW the National Average is 319.1 for same period, so both are a little above that, and yes Rocky Mount's crime rate is about 17% higher statistically than Greenville, at this point.

Then I compared the growth rates of both cities and saw in City-Data statistics that, since 2000, Greenville's population has experienced a 39.8% increase, indicating a growth rate that would tend to substantially overburden the infrastructure of most urban cities. However, since Rocky Mount's population only grew 2.8% over the same time period, according to C-D, that population increase should be easy to assimilate and accommodate over a decade.

Crosschecking with another statistical source (Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed) I saw population changes over same time period (since 2000) of +30% for Greenville and -4% for Rocky Mount. Although numbers are slightly different for the two data sources, relative population change data for the two cities are still similar and show a similar relative trend.

Consequently, I would be more than a little concerned about Greenville's extremely rapid population growth in recent years and the questionable ability of that city's infrastructure to adequately support such a high growth rate without burdensome tax increases (regardless of which number set we use). And with such a population increase, we could reasonably anticipate a corresponding increase in the crime rate for Greenville over the next few years.

So in view of Greenville's rapid population increase, the population density of the two cities becomes an additional factor. Where we currently live in Northern VA, the population density (people per square mile) is currently 2,527. We're looking to get somewhere with a lower population density. In Rocky Mount, the current population density is 1,313 (about half of where we're living now, which would definitely be preferable). However, in Greenville, the current population density is 2,443 (almost the same as where we now live). So why even bother moving at all if it were just to go live in another urban zoo as densely populated as where we live now but with a less adequate infrastructure.

So of the two choices, Rocky Mount is definitely the tentative winner. Next step is to find the safest neighborhood we can (if it exists) ... i.e., someplace where we can feel safe going outside without feeling the need to wear Kevlar and carry MAC-11s.

Thanks for the help.

Dan and Marjie

Last edited by Yac; 01-23-2013 at 05:59 AM..
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Sneads Ferry, NC
13,378 posts, read 27,105,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_in_DC View Post
So of the two choices, Rocky Mount is definitely the tentative winner. Next step is to find the safest neighborhood we can (if it exists) ... i.e., someplace where we can feel safe going outside without feeling the need to wear Kevlar and carry MAC-11s.
I was going to suggest using a tool like spotcrime.com or crimemapping.com, but it doesn't report much. Does anyone know how to find the *locations* of actual arrests in Rocky Mount?

I looked at some real estate listings, and I can see the appeal of RM. There are 1930's houses that look like mansions going for $59/square foot. That was one in the West Haven Historic District listed for $164,900. But, I don't get any crime incidents from the tools, so it sounds like the police are not reporting them in a way the tool can interpret.

FWIW, The houses around the Benvenue Country Club look like they are in a safe area. There was a 50's ranch listed for $194,500 that was "overlooking the 10th fairway". It's hard to imagine needing to wear Kevlar to go shopping from there.

Last edited by goldenage1; 01-11-2013 at 09:07 PM..
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Rocky Mount
63 posts, read 203,523 times
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Hi Dan. I have lived in Rocky Mount since 2005 and came down from New York State. I am excited to learn that you are interested in relocating here. My family really enjoys Rocky Mount and I have tried to highlight this in previous posts. We do live within the city too, not a surrounding area like Red Oak or Nashville. There are several nice, affordable neighborhoods for you to scout and I do encourage the Nash County side as its more prosperous. I live in the Beaver Pond Community, it is off of Gold Rock Road and the entrance road is called Beaver Pond. The newest section is mostly two story homes, but the older sections are nearly all ranch homes. Its very affordable @ 85k-175k, the area is quiet, friendly, many people are always out taking walks, and its right near Cobbs Corner (a central commercial hub). Many neighborhoods are like mine. I have a good friend in South Rocky Mount in a Brand New home in the Spring Forest Drive neighborhood. A beautiful large brand new home for 165k. A best bet for affordablity, safety, and convienance is to find a home West of 301 (N/S Wesleyan Blvd.).
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Sneads Ferry, NC
13,378 posts, read 27,105,985 times
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I've been checking the Rocky Mount police blotters. The police only keep one month of data online, so it's not possible to get a good perspective. You might also read the Rocky Mount Telegram online, and keep a log of the addresses where violence is occurring. One example here; The Rocky Mount Telegram

I suspect the violence is in lower-income neighborhoods, and not the country club areas.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Rocky Mount
63 posts, read 203,523 times
Reputation: 129
Smile Great Areas

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenage1 View Post
I was going to suggest using a tool like spotcrime.com or crimemapping.com, but it doesn't report much. Does anyone know how to find the *locations* of actual arrests in Rocky Mount?

I looked at some real estate listings, and I can see the appeal of RM. There are 1930's houses that look like mansions going for $59/square foot. That was one in the West Haven Historic District listed for $164,900. But, I don't get any crime incidents from the tools, so it sounds like the police are not reporting them in a way the tool can interpret.

FWIW, The houses around the Benvenue Country Club look like they are in a safe area. There was a 50's ranch listed for $194,500 that was "overlooking the 10th fairway". It's hard to imagine needing to wear Kevlar to go shopping from there.
Goldenage, these are two great areas. The West Haven Historic District I love for the look of the homes, community, and general feel as you enter the area. Its a very classy step back in time. The Benvenue Country club area is also great with a diverse look of homes and many large mature pines providing greenery. Both areas are safe as are many areas.

Rocky Mount is really very safe so long as you are not associated with criminal elements. Its sad, but true that most violent crime affects underpriviledged youth. My family and I go to the mall and enjoy riding and watching the train take families around the mall. We also enjoy the new bouncy house play store in the mall. Lots of families do, otherwise the mall would not exist. Sometimes I think that people like to embellish or over simplify something that cannot possibly be seen truthfully seen in such a way. Cities are complex and fluid, never cookie cutter. I didn't mean to tangent, I just want to let you know that the city is generally very safe and that much crime is concentrated in public assisted housing areas.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Danville, VA - 3rd Capital of the Confederacy!
203 posts, read 413,593 times
Reputation: 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenage1 View Post
I've been checking the Rocky Mount police blotters. The police only keep one month of data online, so it's not possible to get a good perspective. You might also read the Rocky Mount Telegram online, and keep a log of the addresses where violence is occurring. One example here; The Rocky Mount Telegram

I suspect the violence is in lower-income neighborhoods, and not the country club areas.
In the office, the RM Police keep files going back a year or more. For last couple of years, we've been working with Bill Matthews, who does crime analysis and statistics. Every few months, we email him addresses of prospective houses we think might be suitable for us, and in about a week he sends back a PDF document with a big map showing crime occurrences over previous 12 months in police beats where our prospect homes are located. We're watching the trends, and gradually learning our way around.

We have also been using the "spot crime" service (www.spotcrime.com). It's a free service, sends you email about once a week with markers on a Google map showing where crimes occurred within a 5-mile radius of your selected address over the previous week, with brief description of nature of each crime.

Such services are helpful in showing us where we don't want to go, but we need help finding places where we might want to go and actually live. Preferred areas for us would have smaller, one-story older homes (maybe built in 1910's or 20's or thereabouts) in quiet nondescript neighborhoods with no HOA's, no sidewalks, and off-street parking. Preferably someplace that the average would-be criminal types would probably not even notice. Saves hassles and paperwork that way.

Any such places you know of, your suggestions would be appreciated.

You're correct in that most of the violent crime (i.e., murder, rape, aggravated assault, etc.) does tend to occur in lower-income neighborhoods. Most of the really wild areas, as far as we've been able to discern thus far, seem to be in 27801 Zip. Rocky Mount crime statistics were skewed quite a bit over the past couple of years by that serial killer, but I think the numbers settled down a little after he was caught.

Here in the DC area, many of the crime rates look deceptively low, because most jurisdictions in this area usually don't release crime reports until the perpetrators have been caught and charged. And in cases where the perp was from out of the area, the authorities might not release data on that particular crime at all with respect to either the perp OR the victim.

With respect to economic crime (i.e., robbery, larceny, burglary, car theft, etc.), such crimes can be committed in pretty much any type of neighborhood, if the right opportunity arises. Especially if the would-be thieves happen to see something that looks like it might be worth stealing but appears to be unguarded at the moment.

Those patterns tend to be pretty much the same everywhere. We just need to learn how to distinguish "modest, nondescript neighborhoods" from "ghetto" neighborhoods in Rocky Mount. That can be tricky for someone not very familiar with an area yet.

Dan
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Sneads Ferry, NC
13,378 posts, read 27,105,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_in_DC View Post
We just need to learn how to distinguish "modest, nondescript neighborhoods" from "ghetto" neighborhoods in Rocky Mount. That can be tricky for someone not very familiar with an area yet.
It's great that you can work with the police. I understand the distinction you are looking for, and I know it can't be observed except by walking or driving around in RM. Google "street view" might help, but I am not close enough to do the driving around.

Are you familiar with this service to locate historic properties: http://www.presnc.org/index.php?opti...sk=showCE&id=1 ??

Last edited by goldenage1; 01-12-2013 at 06:36 AM..
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:48 AM
LLN
 
Location: Upstairs closet
5,265 posts, read 10,746,543 times
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In my experience, "safe" and "diverse" are frequently, mutually exclusive. What one culture values the other does not. Pay your money and take your choice.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Danville, VA - 3rd Capital of the Confederacy!
203 posts, read 413,593 times
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Arrow Clarifying what I mean by "SAFE" and "DIVERSE"

Quote:
Originally Posted by LLN View Post
In my experience, "safe" and "diverse" are frequently, mutually exclusive. What one culture values the other does not. Pay your money and take your choice.
Yes, that's certainly a valid viewpoint in some instances. However, I would be inclined to consider that in most urban areas, while the two values ("safety" and "diversity") might sometimes tend to be inversely proportional to each other, they don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive. Sometimes it depends on how one person interprets the words used by another. And when words are misinterpreted, communication can sometimes be a damnably slippery slope.

"Safety" is what you make of it. And so is "Diversity." The following example may shed more light on what we mean by these terms:

We lived in one Arlington VA apartment complex in the 1980's that was perceived to be so unsafe that many of the local police were afraid to even drive through the neighborhood. It was extremely "diverse" ... after the end of the VietNam war, Arlington was getting a huge influx of refugees from every country in Southeast Asia.

Only problem was, back in their home countries, these different ethnic groups had been engaging in tribal warfare against each other for thousands of years. And some of them, when they got to America, still wanted to continue their ways of hatred, distrust, and prejudice. Many spoke minimal English, and it took awhile to communicate with them. In each building, there were about 70 apartments. Three buildings in the complex, totalled about 210 units. It was convenient though. LOL

In addition to the White Americans and the Black Americans, there had been an influx of Hispanics from various parts of Central and South America. They didn't tend to trust each other much either. And then when all the different Asian groups started coming in, things really started getting crazy.

The cops weren't much help, so Marjie and I started our own Neighborhood Watch program, with help from our Resident Manager. We created a newsletter, which I wrote each month. After we had gotten our newsletter translated into about 12 languages, our Resident Manager put the newsletters around at everybody's door. Each month we held a big Neighborhood Watch meeting, using an available vacant apartment. The apartments were huge, and typically could hold 120 people or so for such a meeting as that.

At each of our meetings, we had a speaker, provided by the Police Department or some County Agency, who talked about personal safety issues and such. And in each section of the living room, volunteer translators provided by a local college would translate our discussion into a different language.

And at the end of each meeting, we put out sign-up sheets, and started recruiting volunteers from among the various ethnic groups. Many of our volunteers were already combat-trained veterans, from somewhere, and they were very focused on keeping our parking lots and buildings SAFE!!! No matter what countries they came from, or what wars they had fought in, each of them had a good basic understanding of military discipline, and some sort of martial arts training or similar.

(Otherwise, they would have probably never survived and gotten to America.)

Since there had been several violent attacks on women who lived there and worked late at night, our first priority was to stop that. So each evening, we walked around out in the building parking lots, making sure nothing happened.

We had set up a phone bank, whereby any woman working late could stop at a pay phone and call ahead when she was on the way home (cell phones hadn't been invented yet), and talk to someone who spoke her language, who would take down her information, including the tag number of her car, year, make, model, color, etc. And then the person who took the call would contact one of our outside watchers who spoke the same language via CB radios.

Consequently, when each young lady arrived in the parking lot, she had two (or more) people to escort her from her car, through the parking lot to the lobby, up the elevator, and right to her apartment door. We always had at least two. I had trained them to always watch and make sure she got inside her apartment, and locked the door behind her.

Only after they were absolutely sure the person was home safe did our Neighborhood Watchers go back outside, to continue patrolling the buildings and parking lots.

Now our volunteers were amazingly "diverse" in such externally visible factors as the colors of their skin, the languages they spoke, the clothes they wore, the music they liked, the houses of worship they attended, and their patchwork quilt of backgrounds and skill sets.

However, they all proved to be amazingly similar in that each cared intensely about such values as family and community. And each one was willing to put forth a considerable effort to help protect our neighborhood and those who lived there. The would-be criminals our group caught usually never came back a second time.

And on those increasingly rare occasions when real "bad guys" might show up in one of our parking lots, perhaps intending to siphon gasoline, steal a car, or attack someone walking alone for purposes of mugging, robbery, rape, or anything else the least bit antisocial, the "bad guys" probably thought they had come up against a UN Peacekeeping Force when they suddenly found themselves surrounded by maybe half a dozen of our volunteers from all over the world, who made sure that the would-be criminals clearly understood that they needed to get off the property very quickly while they were still able, and never come back ... or else!

Within a few short weeks, the crime rate at our buildings dropped to ZERO!

Our army of volunteers were very enthusiastic, and achieved great satisfaction from their service to the community. And despite their ethnic and cultural differences, they quickly made friends with each other.

Our neighborhood rapidly became the safest place in Arlington County. The "bad guys" didn't even want to walk down the street past the parking lots that went to our buildings anymore. And very soon, nobody who lived in those buildings was a "stranger" anymore. Despite our "diversity."

We lived there for a little over 9 years, and might still be there today, except that the building owner died, and his sons didn't want to be bothered with property management, and sold them off as condos. We didn't want to buy a condo, and all of our international group of friends and neighbors were moving out, so we moved out too.

But in that particular instance, we actually managed to achieve a much greater degree of "safety" through practical and creative understanding and utilization of the best qualities of the available "diversity" among our neighbors.

Now if you consider a different kind of "diversity" ... such as, consider a population that contains three groups of people: Maybe the first group all work for a living and go to Church on Sunday; the second group survive by shoplifting and robbing people; and the third group basically do nothing but get high all day, and plan to continue doing so until they die.

Nobody could successfully integrate three groups with that nature or degree of "diversity." And nobody in his right mind would try. And that is certainly not what I would call "diversity."

Criminals are criminals. Even though some of them may exist among us, they're really not fit to inhabit a civilized society. However, if you're a parole officer or prison psychiatrist, and you're getting paid to try to rehabilitate some of the "bad guys" that's a whole different situation ... if that's your job, you gotta at least try.

But even if you ARE getting paid to "rehabilitate" them, you still would NOT want to be inviting the "bad guys" over for cocktails and a game of badminton ... that sort of thing could get you killed.

And if you're NOT being paid to baby-sit the "bad guys" you probably shouldn't be around them or get involved with them at all, in any way, ever.

My original posting was VERY clear about what kind of community we're trying to find. And the content of what I wrote should have made it pretty clear what I meant when I used the descriptive terms "safe" and "diverse" ... but I'll try to clarify those concepts here in a more concise way:

"SAFE"
This simply means that we definitely do not want to have to waste time worrying about roving bands of predatory thugs (of ANY race, color, creed, age, sex, political persuasion, etc.) who may inhabit what might become our neighborhood, and who might be hell-bent on destruction of whatever nature.

And we've never really worried too much about people like that. In the past, if we've inadvertently found ourselves living in an area infested by such vermin, usually a few sessions of sitting on the front porch cleaning our guns was sufficient to deter such low-lifes from anything more dangerous than casting furtive paranoid glances at us if they happened to walk by, hoping we didn't notice them.

At this stage of life, we'd rather not have to spend a lot of time sitting around cleaning guns -- OR firing them at human targets. We also don't want to live in any neighborhood that's infested by people engaged in any sort of "continuing criminal enterprise" ... i.e., dope dealers; prostitutes; stolen car rings; "gangs" of any type (regardless of ethnicity or political persuasion); and the like.

So a neighborhood that is generally regarded as "SAFE" by those who live there might be more likely to be a neighborhood in which we might prefer to live.

"DIVERSE"
I think I have already explained pretty clearly in this posting what I don't mean by "diverse" ...

Now here's what I do mean: First of all, we want to live somewhere that is absolutely NOT part of either side of the bizarre equation that constitutes the "white flight" social phenomenon.

If you're not familiar with that term, Wikipedia explains various aspects of the phenomenon pretty well here, both in the immediate sense and from a historical perspective:
White flight - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ideally, a "diverse" community is composed of population groups of people from a variety of ethnic, social and cultural backgrounds whose intellectual curiosity has taught them how to overcome most of their "prejudice" and fear of strangers.

Such a community is vibrant and alive. And in such diversity, each of us can learn so much more when in close contact with members of the other diverse "tribes" than can be learned when totally surrounded by nobody but other members of our own "tribe."

In large part, it has been that particular type of diversity which has built and strengthened America. As we learn from each other and apply that knowledge, the whole society benefits.

Any "plain vanilla" community (or "plain chocolate" one, or any other flavor you can imagine.) where everybody looks and acts and thinks exactly the same can quickly become drab and boring -- and pointless! There's no point in even bothering to talk to the guy next door, if he's just like you.

Where we live now is a very diverse community. We're all "different" ... and we all get along. Probably would not think of moving from here, except because of my injury I need to live in a 1-story house with minimal to no stairs at this point in my life, and 1-story houses are rare in Northern VA.

Dan
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Danville, VA - 3rd Capital of the Confederacy!
203 posts, read 413,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenage1 View Post
Are you familiar with this service to locate historic properties: http://www.presnc.org/index.php?opti...sk=showCE&id=1 ??
Yes, we're very familiar with PNC. Had dealings with those people in 2005 when we almost bought a beautiful Queen Anne Victorian 1-story house in Robersonville. Had a wraparound porch with a 12-foot wide gazebo. Had PNC's historic plaque on it and all that.

House was called the "Robert A. Bailey House", at 104 S. Broad St., Robersonville, built in 1895 and it's still there, I think. Saw recent photos of it a few months ago, and it has deteriorated so much over the past few years that it would probably take $200K or more to restore it now.

Anyway, as we were working our way through the paperwork to go to settlement, I contacted the folks at PNC and asked permission to put a handicapped ramp along the back of the house (yard is about 1/2 acre), and got verbal acquiescence on my proposal from Barbara Wishy, who was the Executive Director of PNC at that time. Even though we didn't own that house yet, PNC had granted permission to make the modifications we might need. We were ecstatic.

Six months later, we were still wrangling over financing, because Wachovia's underwriter (located somewhere in California) had refused to underwrite the financing on a house he had never seen because of PNC's protective covenants on that historic house.

Finally, after we had made new arrangements for financing, I recontacted PNC, hoping to get some guidance from Barbara Wishy on how to accomplish the accessibility modifications we wanted to make on the house following settlement, which we of course wanted to do in keeping with the general historical accuracy of a house of that period.

Found that Barbara had retired, and PNC's new Director (whose name I thankfully have forgotten) wasn't willing to discuss anything until after we had actually purchased the house.

We had reached an impasse. We were unwilling to buy the house unless we were assured that we could make the necessary modifications to be able to get in and out of it; and they were unwilling to discuss all that unless we already owned it. So sadly we walked away. Minus the $1800 loan origination fee we had already given to Wachovia, and the $1500 fee we had paid to extend the closing deadline while we dealt with Wachovia's underwriter and the new folks at PNC.

We would still like a "historic" (i.e., "old") house, but we want one that is NOT registered with PNC.

Since the Bailey House debacle, several real estate lawyers (both in NC and VA) have told us that "historic plaque" houses are almost impossible to purchase with bank loans. It was a beautiful house, and it saddens us every time we see how much it has deteriorated just sitting there over the last few years.

It was a damnably expensive and painful lesson, and we don't intend to get fooled like that again.

Dan and Marjie
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