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I think they only consider biology, chemistry & physics to be "real science." But like you said, my college didn't differentiate between classes for majors vs non-majors, unless you were in a specialized school like Pharmacy or Dental. We could register for pretty much any course, and I was never told something was only for majors in the subject... two of my favorite classes were Film Noir and Modern Art History, which had absolutely nothing to do with my degree. We also had plenty of non-majors in my English classes, ranging from creative writing to literary criticism and Shakespeare - as long as there was room in the class, they were welcomed to join!
The college degree is for a resume, that's is sole purpose.
does it actually ensure one is smarter than the average bear? Well, watch Wizard of Oz, right at the end, when the wizard is handing out the prizes to the group, he handed the Scarecrow a College Diploma. The scarecrow wanted a brain, the wizard said many people have no more brains than you do, but they have a college diploma, now you're up there with the smartest! or some words to that effect.
Just remember, many with multiple college degrees have straw for brains, but they still need it for resume material!
I intend to send my 2 kids through college without any student loans. No, we don't have a ton of money saved, but, they can live at home, we live within driving distance of 2 universities, they can work part-time, whatever it takes to get through. That way, at least when they graduate, they don't owe money they can't pay back.
The college degree is for a resume, that's is sole purpose.
does it actually ensure one is smarter than the average bear? Well, watch Wizard of Oz, right at the end, when the wizard is handing out the prizes to the group, he handed the Scarecrow a College Diploma. The scarecrow wanted a brain, the wizard said many people have no more brains than you do, but they have a college diploma, now you're up there with the smartest! or some words to that effect.
Just remember, many with multiple college degrees have straw for brains, but they still need it for resume material!
Of course simply having a degree doesn't make one smart, nor does NOT having a degree make you stupid... but the process of attending college and taking those courses does expand your overall knowledge, and depending on the subject/s studied, they can prepare you for certain professional careers. I was no more or less intelligent before college, but I certainly learned a lot of new information there! I simply couldn't do my job without those degrees, and anyone who thinks I could is foolish - or grossly misinformed about what a librarian actually does (often the case).
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I intend to send my 2 kids through college without any student loans. No, we don't have a ton of money saved, but, they can live at home, we live within driving distance of 2 universities, they can work part-time, whatever it takes to get through. That way, at least when they graduate, they don't owe money they can't pay back.
Good plan. I was fortunate to have my college tuition paid, and never had to take out a student loan or grant... but for those who do, it's usually a smart investment in the long-run. I just wish people would investigate ALL sources for college money, rather than jumping right into a high-interest loan. That's where most people get themselves into trouble, especially if they choose an expensive private school over a state/public school. I went private for most of my undergraduate degree, but did my Master's Degree at a state university - only cost about $2500/semester, which was a fraction of what I would have paid at a private graduate school.
Sure, but I also know how to use academic databases and sources... do you know what those are, where/how to access them, and how to judge the information found? Do most people have special training on Dialog, Factiva, Lexis-Nexis, OneFile, and other such resources that are needed for REAL research? And can they instruct the public (particularly those with weak computer skills) on how to use everything properly, complete with Boolean limiters and stop-words? I can also distinguish between a reliable and not-so-reliable source, whether it's found via Google or academic databases. And that's what makes me a professional/expert, versus somebody who thinks everything found on Google & Wikipedia is fact.
P.S. I'm also specially trained on microfilm/fiche, which is a dying art these days - but still extremely useful (often the only source) for certain types of research. At my old library I was in charge of genealogical requests, most of which could only be accomplished through microfilm... we had an extensive collection dating back to the 1800s, and I sometimes spent HOURS each day searching for old obituaries & articles. It was actually a lot of fun, but I'd occasionally go cross-eyed after a while.
Yep, I do know what they are, and unfortunately, I do use them... I stick to google and wikipedia as much as possible.
Yep, I do know what they are, and unfortunately, I do use them... I stick to google and wikipedia as much as possible.
Google and Wikipedia are good for some things, but not for all types of research... when I was in graduate school, my professors would actually DEDUCT 5-10 points if Wikipedia showed up on a bibliography.
It's great you know what those academic databases are, but who do you think maintains and reviews them? And who teaches students/patrons how to use these sources, not to mention offers public access (through library subscriptions) to them? Librarians do! We have special knowledge and training on these things, and without our work they'd be nonexistent or unused... especially in colleges, where many students depend on their librarians to assist with research projects. Sorry to lecture, I just get sick of people thinking Google has all the answers - and I also get sick of people who don't understand my job (which involves a lot more than research, btw).
My university offered a few science classes for non-majors. Astronomy was one of them and I took that class. I really enjoyed it. I think these kinds of classes are built the way they are so they're manageable for non-sci majors. I also wonder if they cover a broader range of information as well without getting into the nitty gritty.
I am not really sure how this became a liberal arts vs. Whatever discussion.
Plain and simple if you have a bull**** degree, that does not give you chances at viable careers, its just a "hobby" degree. Something you did for fun.
If you are able to find a job and become a productive part of society that is nice. But don't blame the world if you are having to struggle, complain the world needs to support your field because YOU feel its more important.
As I stated before, a degree that does not help you get a job is useless.
Please don't start pulling statistics of how people with degrees get paid more and are more likely to have a job. The numbers are skewed, lifetime welfare moms, will not have degrees. Near all billionaires have some sort of degrees. This skews the numbers both ways, and does not apply to day to day average Americans.
I am not really sure how this became a liberal arts vs. Whatever discussion.
Plain and simple if you have a bull**** degree, that does not give you chances at viable careers, its just a "hobby" degree. Something you did for fun.
If you are able to find a job and become a productive part of society that is nice. But don't blame the world if you are having to struggle, complain the world needs to support your field because YOU feel its more important.
As I stated before, a degree that does not help you get a job is useless.
Please don't start pulling statistics of how people with degrees get paid more and are more likely to have a job. The numbers are skewed, lifetime welfare moms, will not have degrees. Near all billionaires have some sort of degrees. This skews the numbers both ways, and does not apply to day to day average Americans.
Sent from my autocorrect butchering device.
I'd hope folk are pulling the medians when discussing salaries, rather than averages.
This whole discussion is about the economic value of a degree, is it not?
Its been mixed, I just making it explicit that I was responding on behalf of "economic value".
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Originally Posted by gizmo980
As for why I didn't pursue an "economically viable" undergraduate degree, it's because I have supportive parents who encouraged me to study what I wanted. I'm absolutely terrible at science, I don't like math despite some natural abilities, and have zero interest in things like engineering/comp-sci.
Supportive? My parents were the same way with me and my siblings, I consider it more apathetic than....supportive.
In terms of "not liking math", when I started college I didn't care about mathematics. I didn't care much about science either. I started studying music and anthropology (and then the intersection of the two), but at some point I took a Logic course offered by the Philosophy department and by "accident" discovered an interest in mathematics. I switched my course of study and ended up spending 5 years as an undergrad and graduated with a ridiculous amount of units. My point? Kids come into college with large biases, biases that don't necessarily serve them well. Liberal arts degree programs almost entirely shield students from having to take any serious course work in other fields as a result they never get a chance to see the fields for what they really are..... Indeed, they may live their entire lives without knowing what math, science, etc are really about.
Interestingly, later as a graduate student I once again, by accident, discovered an interest in computer science. I discovered, like previously in the case of mathematics, that it was not the boring subject I once conceived.
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Originally Posted by gizmo980
I'm also not in danger of being outsourced, and this field has never been over-saturated...
No danger of being outsourced, but there is a danger of being outdated.
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Originally Posted by gizmo980
One must only LIVE in Silicon Valley to see it's true...
How is that? People don't walk around with their employment status on their forehead. You'd have to know two pieces of information, the size of the local employment pool for computer related fields (both employed and unemployed) and then the number of just employed. Not sure how exactly you can derive that information from living in the community....
But I would like to know the source of your information, its conflicting with pretty much every news report out of the area which describe the employment market for computer science talent as very hot.
Any field that employs the scientific method (i.e., empirical inductive methodologies) to build and organize knowledge about the world.
In the case of a nurse, they aren't systemically employing the scientific method to uncover empirical results, they are utilizing particular scientific knowledge in the biological sciences.
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Originally Posted by gizmo980
I think they only consider biology, chemistry & physics to be "real science." But like you said, my college didn't differentiate between classes for majors vs non-majors, unless you were in a specialized school like Pharmacy or Dental. We could register for pretty much any course, and I was never told something was only for majors in the subject... two of my favorite classes were Film Noir and Modern Art History, which had absolutely nothing to do with my degree.
I'm talking about science and mathematics courses here, not Humanities courses. Humanities courses typically don't have many prerequisites, I'd suggest the reason for that is that they lack serious academic content. Oh the other hand, outside of the non-major course offerings science, mathematics etc courses all have a lot of prerequisites. Not only that, since room is often limited majors get first pick of the courses and only if there is space left can non-majors take the courses...assuming of course that they have met the prerequisites.
Regardless, no, I don't just consider biology, chemistry and physics to be "real sciences". Psychology, Anthropology, Sociology, etc are legitimate sciences as well, but degrees in these subjects tend to have less economic value.
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I was fortunate to have my college tuition paid, and never had to take out a student loan or grant... but for those who do, it's usually a smart investment in the long-run. I just wish people would investigate ALL sources for college money, rather than jumping right into a high-interest loan. That's where most people get themselves into trouble, especially if they choose an expensive private school over a state/public school. I went private for most of my undergraduate degree, but did my Master's Degree at a state university - only cost about $2500/semester, which was a fraction of what I would have paid at a private graduate school.
