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At my "elite" school most of the people studying finance do seem to come from money already. A lot of them don't seem to even have a plan, but I'm sure they know the right people.
What an interesting topic. Seriously.
I've seen really smart people from rich families that take up liberal arts because that's what they really like. I've seen some not so smart people from rich families take up liberal arts because they think it will be easier.
I've seen really smart people from rich families take up business because their rich parents had business acumen that was "genetically" passed on to the kids. I've seen some not so smart people from rich families take up business because it was the thing to do and they didn't have a plan, figuring it would work out.
I think the concern on whether to embark on a business/finance career has a lot to do with how much you want to conform and if you are comfortable working in certain companies/firms. I'm sure there's a place for someone who has good educational credentials in business, it's just that if you don't have the right calling card and connections, some places of work may not be open to you. But then, you probably wouldn't enjoy working there anyway.
I've seen really smart people from rich families that take up liberal arts because that's what they really like. I've seen some not so smart people from rich families take up liberal arts because they think it will be easier.
I've seen really smart people from rich families take up business because their rich parents had business acumen that was "genetically" passed on to the kids. I've seen some not so smart people from rich families take up business because it was the thing to do and they didn't have a plan, figuring it would work out.
I think the concern on whether to embark on a business/finance career has a lot to do with how much you want to conform and if you are comfortable working in certain companies/firms. I'm sure there's a place for someone who has good educational credentials in business, it's just that if you don't have the right calling card and connections, some places of work may not be open to you. But then, you probably wouldn't enjoy working there anyway.
This is very true. I never put much thought into what my life would be like if I worked for a huge bank, old school insurance comapany, or gigantic corporation.
I'm currently working in my first corporate/business position at a huge company and I constantly feel pressure to conform, similar to high school. When invited to lunch by a bunch of people I never work with, I feel pressured to say yes or be disliked by others in my office.
This is something I never even considered and is kind of a turn off for me since I see myself as somewhat different than the masses (only child, moved around a lot, hispanic-jew, kind of a wild child) and was never good at kissing butts, although I think I should start learning.
I really don't like this aspect of the corporate world, its such a strong turn-off, but I try not to focus on it too much.
Also, about having connections, I had no idea how EVERYTHING has to do with this. I see most of the successful people in insurance sales usually "inherit" someone else's practice be it a father or father-in-law retiring and handing it down.
How is someone supposed to be successful if they are not a natural conformer and family in business?
In last month's Money Magazine,a graph showed the top 10% of earners (individuals) in this country make over $100,000 a year, not the top 1.5% that's ridiculous.
You may want to actually read what was said before you comment. I said that 1.5% of households make more than $250,000, not $100,000.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pear Martini
How is someone supposed to be successful if they are not a natural conformer and family in business?
This is very true. I never put much thought into what my life would be like if I worked for a huge bank, old school insurance comapany, or gigantic corporation.
I'm currently working in my first corporate/business position at a huge company and I constantly feel pressure to conform, similar to high school. When invited to lunch by a bunch of people I never work with, I feel pressured to say yes or be disliked by others in my office.
This is something I never even considered and is kind of a turn off for me since I see myself as somewhat different than the masses (only child, moved around a lot, hispanic-jew, kind of a wild child) and was never good at kissing butts, although I think I should start learning.
I really don't like this aspect of the corporate world, its such a strong turn-off, but I try not to focus on it too much.
Also, about having connections, I had no idea how EVERYTHING has to do with this. I see most of the successful people in insurance sales usually "inherit" someone else's practice be it a father or father-in-law retiring and handing it down.
How is someone supposed to be successful if they are not a natural conformer and family in business?
I've had similar experience working in the corporate world. At first it was difficult as my personality (introverted, attention shunning, etc.) was in direct contrast with office culture. It made me miserable at first, but now I have learned to embrace who I am and realize that nothing is wrong with me. I absolutely hate "team building" outings and division lunches and such; I simply don't go and could care less what others think. I let my work speak for it self. People thought me strange at first, but overtime they just realized they'd have to accept it.
Many of most wealthy hedge fund traders, who are often Wharton undergrad alums, are from middle-income suburbia, not many trust fund kids, nor kids from slums
Many of wealthiest software engineers in SiliconValley (often far wealthier than comparable age HF traders today) are originally from middle-income US suburbia or from poor backgrounds in India....and figured out how to gain entry to Stanford CS and/or to succeed in a Darwinian industry like tech
Likely helpful for anyone ambitious to avoid trying to play a silly wealth/racial guilt card when many/most of wealthiest in either SV or Manhattan or BH today are self-made products of middle-income (or worse) families from somewhere else....life was never "fair" and never will be....we all start with a certain deck of family DNA/values cards which one plays....and mysteriously very few trust fund kids (aside from a rare few like Billy Gates) ever earns much new wealth via own talent/productivity
Many of most wealthy hedge fund traders, who are often Wharton undergrad alums, are from middle-income suburbia, not many trust fund kids, nor kids from slums
Many of wealthiest software engineers in SiliconValley (often far wealthier than comparable age HF traders today) are originally from middle-income US suburbia or from poor backgrounds in India....and figured out how to gain entry to Stanford CS and/or to succeed in a Darwinian industry like tech
Likely helpful for anyone ambitious to avoid trying to play a silly wealth/racial guilt card when many/most of wealthiest in either SV or Manhattan or BH today are self-made products of middle-income (or worse) families from somewhere else....life was never "fair" and never will be....we all start with a certain deck of family DNA/values cards which one plays....and mysteriously very few trust fund kids (aside from a rare few like Billy Gates) ever earns much new wealth via own talent/productivity
Agreed in that those who are middle-of-the-road economically gained calling cards via Wharton and Stanford, respectively. And then, they must have had an entrepreneurial streak. For the middle-class student who gets a business degree from geographically similar Villanova or Santa Clara, is not entrepreneurial and not a schmoozer, and gets a B average or better, their future looks very different.
I constantly feel pressure to conform, similar to high school. When invited to lunch by a bunch of people I never work with, I feel pressured to say yes or be disliked by others in my office.
This is something I never even considered and is kind of a turn off for me since I see myself as somewhat different than the masses (only child, moved around a lot, hispanic-jew, kind of a wild child) and was never good at kissing butts, although I think I should start learning.
Honestly, you have a very bad attitude and will probably have a mediocre career unless you change your mind-set.
It is NOT about kissing butts. When you work in a large organization, nothing gets done without people working with other people effectively. Sometimes that is within your immediate group, but other times you need to help from people in other groups.
They don't want you to be like them, you can be as individual as you want to be within limits of professionalism. However, no one likes to work with cranks, jerks, loners, or anyone they construe as selfish. So if that's how you are perceived, eventually no one will go the extra mile to help you out when you need help, particuarly when you are under some tremendous time pressure.
They basically want to know if you are a guy then can count on and if they can't, they'll be relunctant to help you if it requires sacrifices to them in terms of time or resources. It's the same in business or in life. If you neighbor asks you over for beers and you constantly say no and never invite them over, what happens? You don't have to hang out with them, particularly if you are busy, but you have to build work relationships to succeed. That's just the way it is. Going to lunch and making friends is just an easy and cheap way of doing so. Working past midnight and doing a fantastic job above and beyond what is required, is a more painful way to do it.
I'm currently working in my first corporate/business position at a huge company and I constantly feel pressure to conform, similar to high school. When invited to lunch by a bunch of people I never work with, I feel pressured to say yes or be disliked by others in my office.
Socializing is not the same as conforming. Socializing is important for business networking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pear Martini
Also, about having connections, I had no idea how EVERYTHING has to do with this. I see most of the successful people in insurance sales usually "inherit" someone else's practice be it a father or father-in-law retiring and handing it down.
So you see the path to success...CONNECTIONS... yet seem unwilling to pursue it as you seem to want to limit the potential connections you could make with peers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pear Martini
How is someone supposed to be successful if they are not a natural conformer and family in business?
Most highly successful people I know are not "conformers" they are just superior at the "making connections" part. If that skill/experience is lacking, it can be a huge impediment to success.
Socializing is not the same as conforming. Socializing is important for business networking.
I hear what you are saying. All of it. I know doctors I've had who were good doctors who I could never project as being investment bankers which, realistically, is an "easier" preparatory route. You need about a 3.7 in the sciences to go to a good medical school. You can get into a top 10 B-school with less than a 3.5, in ANYTHING, provided you have a good GMAT score.
These doctors are more introspective and I could see them reading, being into personal fitness or building models in their garages. I couldn't see them golfing (well, not all of them), going to "power lunches," going to happy hours and generally back-slapping. A lot of the business socializing is built around activities such as these. If you didn't do that in investments, banking, public accounting and consulting, then you wouldn't have much of a career, would you? When I was in grad school, I had a friend in the law school. He would tell me about his classes and the profs. One of his law profs said, "I can't play golf, that's why I teach." I believe it.
Unfortunately, numerous people take up a business education without having an interest in these peripheral things. Maybe, on the whole, business wasn't the best major for them. Perhaps something more introverted or fully based on skills would have been better.
Last edited by robertpolyglot; 03-15-2012 at 04:37 PM..
That depends on the university - some are as low as 50%.
I attribute it to the poor quality of mathematics training in MOST public schools in the US. Foreign students are generally better prepared as subjects as calculus are requirements, not elective.
I agree!!!
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