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i am currently a 21-yr-old psych major (3 years remaining) and am debating what advanced degree path I should take. My ultimate goal is to become an abnormal child psychologist.
Here are the pros and cons I have for the two degrees so far (correct me if I'm wrong):
MSW
Pros
-only 2 yrs; I'll be 26 when I finish (I want to have kids well before Im 30)
-flexible
-highly marketable
-job outlook is 25% faster than average (bureau of labor)
Cons
-not as reputable as a Phd
-low pay and LOTS of cases
-mainly deals with day-to-day stresses; not with long-term illness (not sure if I'm wording this right)
PHD
Pros
-actually would give me the job title "abnormal child psychologist"
-higher pay in the long run
-opens up more opportunities
-deals with long as well as short-term mental illnesses
-i feel like i would use more of what I learned with my psych major in psychotherapy with phd rather than msw
-considered on the same level as doctors
Cons
-takes up to 5 years; I'll be 29 when I finish, plus another year or two of residency
-more expensive
-more research-based (altho I hear its just a stereotype)
-22% faster than average job outlook (about same as all other jobs)
I'm most likely gonna apply to both programs when I graduate, but any suggestions about which one I should lean towards? I know I can always get an MSW first and go back for my phd later, but if I did that I would always think, what if I went straight for my phd after college.
How is financial aid for the msw vs the phd? How would the debt I go in factor into my living in nyc (NOT in Manhattan)?
With an MSW, can I choose to only work with children & adolescents?
Clinical psych PhDs are incredibly competitive to obtain (to get into a good program), with not enough jobs for grads. Unless you get into a very good program, are a hard core researcher type that can get grants on your own and be competitive for academic jobs, this is a risky path. I sense this isn't you.
Social work can have a vast assortment of job opportunities. It can be demanding/stressful and is completely different then a clinical psych path. If you are more of a people person, who likes seeing immediate effects of your work, then this is a better direction. You can follow clients/patients long term. Jobs can also sometimes be more flexible/part time, as it sounds like family is important to you.
I'm going to be honest with you. Psych is not a very useful degree. It would be better if you were interested in psychiatry/child psych, as this has the best job security but is a very demanding path. Sounds like it is too late for that. But it is not true that you will have the same options as an MD open to you with a clinical psych degree. You will have a very hard time unless you are outstanding finding your niche.
You should spend time now looking for mentors in these fields to talk to you realistically about the job options, your talents and their recommendations for you. You should take out the smallest debt possible, as your job prospects in either field are tough (lower salary for years vs. no job).
Yep, for all that schooling the pay for an MSW is very low and the job is very stressful. I know because my wife is an ACSW/MSW. She had a job that paid really well for a while, which waa an administrative/management position with an RTF but they closed a few years ago. Her specialty is children and adolescents, and she works a lot with families, too. Don't forget that kids who are in need of a social worker or psychologist usually have parent(s)/caregivers who are also in need of services, and when you deal with the kid you deal with them.
-22% faster than average job outlook (about same as all other jobs)
Am I misreading this? The job outlook can't be faster than average and about the same as other jobs at the same time. It's faster than average and 3 percentage points below social work. That's not much of a difference. I believe psychologists now have prescriptive authority in Louisiana and New Mexico and there is a push to get this in other states. People often pay an outrageous amount of money to see a psychiatrist for 15min. just to get a refill on their prescriptions and then they're sent to a psychologist for therapy where they have to pay even more money. Most psychiatrists have abandoned therapy because there's more money in writing prescriptions.
PsyD programs are less focused on research. If you can get funding to work on a PhD, go for it.
You don't want to pay to get either your PhD or PsyD as the above poster mentioned. To go 150k+ in debt and give up 5 years of earning power is not worth it.
Good PhD Clinical Psych Programs (ie one's that will provide you tuition waivers and a stipend) are very difficult to get into. You are probably looking at:
- 2-3 years of research experience (volunteering in labs 10-20 hours a week, etc.)
- a 3.7+
- and a 1300+ (on the old GRE system, so its equivalent in today's system)
in order to be competitive for a funded Clinical Psych PhD program.
If you don't like research right now, chances are you aren't going to volunteer in labs for the next 2-3 years, so a PhD that is funded sounds like a long shot.
I think you would probably be better off with the MSW.
[quote=sfcambridge;24990911]
I'm going to be honest with you. Psych is not a very useful degree. It would be better if you were interested in psychiatry/child psych, as this has the best job security but is a very demanding path. Sounds like it is too late for that. But it is not true that you will have the same options as an MD open to you with a clinical psych degree. You will have a very hard time unless you are outstanding finding your niche.
quote]
child psychiatry was another field I was considering. Can you explain that job security to me? Should I double major in psych and biology, or minor in bio? I would rather keep my psych degree just in case I dont get accepted to med school I could continue on the msw path.
I'm going to be honest with you. Psych is not a very useful degree. It would be better if you were interested in psychiatry/child psych, as this has the best job security but is a very demanding path. Sounds like it is too late for that. But it is not true that you will have the same options as an MD open to you with a clinical psych degree. You will have a very hard time unless you are outstanding finding your niche.
quote]
child psychiatry was another field I was considering. Can you explain that job security to me? Should I double major in psych and biology, or minor in bio? I would rather keep my psych degree just in case I dont get accepted to med school I could continue on the msw path.
An MD .... if you can hack it.... is essentially a guaranteed job. As long as you are willing to travel, and are not inept, you will be employed. But it is a very long road (4 yrs med school, 4-5 yrs for internship/residency/fellowship for child psych), with very high costs (medical school), long standing debt. The best options unless you are wealthy and can afford it, or happy to take out $200K in loans, are to go to the best in-state public school you can find. This will have the most affordable tuition. The post med school training in psych is one of the "easiest" specialties, but it's all relative.
It is more valuable for you to major in biology for just about any job option, because it is known to be more rigorous, but certainly if you can juggle two subjects that's great. If you go to a school like MIT that has a cognitive sciences major/neuroscience major instead of biology, or Stanford that has "human biology"... those might be alternative options for you. Those fields of study cover more "psych" like topics, but at a higher level. Certainly it is popular for pre-meds to double major in psych/bio, because psych is usually fun/interesting. But you need to be sure you fulfill all the pre-med requirements in addition to whatever majors you take. It is very popular these days for people to major in ANY subject, but still take pre-med courses (and do very well in those) and then apply for med school.
Whatever you decide, I encourage you to volunteer, organize activities, and pursue mentors in your fields of study. Get your resume thick with experiences that show your good people skills, your interest in following cases/issues, health/welfare relevant organizations. This is NOT just for resume building, but these experiences will help you meet people to guide you, and hopefully find the path that interests you the most that you can follow long term.
An MD .... if you can hack it.... is essentially a guaranteed job. As long as you are willing to travel, and are not inept, you will be employed. But it is a very long road (4 yrs med school, 4-5 yrs for internship/residency/fellowship for child psych), with very high costs (medical school), long standing debt. The best options unless you are wealthy and can afford it, or happy to take out $200K in loans, are to go to the best in-state public school you can find. This will have the most affordable tuition. The post med school training in psych is one of the "easiest" specialties, but it's all relative.
It is more valuable for you to major in biology for just about any job option, because it is known to be more rigorous, but certainly if you can juggle two subjects that's great. If you go to a school like MIT that has a cognitive sciences major/neuroscience major instead of biology, or Stanford that has "human biology"... those might be alternative options for you. Those fields of study cover more "psych" like topics, but at a higher level. Certainly it is popular for pre-meds to double major in psych/bio, because psych is usually fun/interesting. But you need to be sure you fulfill all the pre-med requirements in addition to whatever majors you take. It is very popular these days for people to major in ANY subject, but still take pre-med courses (and do very well in those) and then apply for med school.
Whatever you decide, I encourage you to volunteer, organize activities, and pursue mentors in your fields of study. Get your resume thick with experiences that show your good people skills, your interest in following cases/issues, health/welfare relevant organizations. This is NOT just for resume building, but these experiences will help you meet people to guide you, and hopefully find the path that interests you the most that you can follow long term.
child psychiatry was another field I was considering. Can you explain that job security to me? Should I double major in psych and biology, or minor in bio? I would rather keep my psych degree just in case I dont get accepted to med school I could continue on the msw path.
You don't need to major in biology to get into med school. It's actually discouraged because you'll be competing against a ton of other biology majors when medical schools are trying to diversify their student bodies based on educational background. You can major in psych and still get the medical school prerequisites out of the way. The life sciences are probably some of the worst STEM majors for job prospects and pay at the undergraduate level.
The much cheaper and easier/faster option would be to become a psychiatric nurse practitioner. Get a BSN and then get an MSN with a psychiatric nurse practitioner concentration. It pays a lot more than being an MSW, it takes less schooling than it would become a psychologist, and it has a better return on investment than becoming a doctor because you'll have a lot less debt. I believe the average salary for a psychiatric nurse practitioner is around $95,000 and you can practice independently if you want.
To be a reputable abnormal child psychologist with your own practice, you should get the PhD for sure. It's true, you will go into debt for it, but you will also go into debt for a MSW and probably never pay off your loans with your income. You could also consider Ed.S. School Psychology, with an emphasis in child psychology.
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