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The most important part of selecting a career is honest and brutal self evaluation. Just about every "desirable" occupation is going to have a lot of competition. If your abilities allow you to distinguish yourself from the competition, then the career choice is valid. The competition you will face in your field is much much stiffer than the competition you will face getting into a program, so don't think that you have a fair shot at a career just because someone is willing to let you pay to study it.
I would advise people to avoid studying a discipline where teaching at the college level is the only acceptable career choice. Academic jobs where the skills of the discipline are not in high demand in industry are typically hypercompetitive and low paying. For example, my cousin is a writer with a PhD in English, and he is unable to find a decent academic job despite a half dozen published books. He didn't even get an interview at a lower tier college that uses one of his books in their curriculum, to give you an idea of the competition. It is simply impossible to make a good living doing something that mid-late career people with 20 years of experience will do practically for free or just for the fringe benefits.
Academic jobs in the sciences are a bit more lucrative because the universities need to offer a package that is competitive enough to lure talent away from industry. Also, science research gets a lot more funding, so science faculty can pretty much pay for themselves.
For example, my cousin is a writer with a PhD in English, and he is unable to find a decent academic job despite a half dozen published books. He didn't even get an interview at a lower tier college that uses one of his books in their curriculum, to give you an idea of the competition. It is simply impossible to make a good living doing something that mid-late career people with 20 years of experience will do practically for free or just for the fringe benefits.
Ha. That is wild!
What do you think of career prospects for U.S. born engineering pHds in academia?
What do you think of career prospects for U.S. born engineering pHds in academia?
Engineering is competitive, but there is so much demand in industry that academia is an afterthought for most PhD graduates in high demand fields like electrical, chemical, and biomedical engineering. In those fields, in my region of the country, a PhD graduate in the top third of their class and a productive postdoc will probably find a tenure track academic position somewhere. I don't know much about other engineering fields, as I don't have any close friends or collaborators with that experience.
I would like some input on how to best research potential career plans where I can have a good understanding of things like unemployment rates within a field, realistic starting salaries, rates of 'burnout', and so on.
I read a LOT of things online and I have found that when you just look solely at data, for example via the Bureau of Labor Statistics, you might not get a clear picture. However, when you look at forums where people discuss these various careers, you get a LOT of negative opinions, but I wonder if it is the same as with anything else -- people who are happy aren't coming online to complain so the picture is skewed.. ? Maybe?
It seems like with everything I have considered, I have found a ton of folk who say "Don't do it! I do this and I hate it!" I am and have been going round and round and round with regard to potential careers and I really need to take steps to make the RIGHT decision. I am thinking I should job shadow some people in the careers I am considering but I am not sure how to go about that if I don't know someone in those fields.
Whatever I choose, I will be going to grad school, so I need to find something that is not simply "hot" right now but fairly stable and chances will be good for me to actually be able to get a job when I graduate. I am currently working on a BA in English with a minor in Sociology. I have taken plenty of Psych courses also, almost enough for that to be a second minor. I am considering/have considered the following:
Social Work -- MSW- I would prefer to work in mental health, or maybe with older or even geriatric populations vs kids
Library Science -- MLIS/MLS
Education -- Master's in Special Education, Administration perhaps, or adult education
Pay is always important but not as important to me as the availability of jobs and the ability to change from one job to another with the same degree. For this reason, social work seems like a good fit because it doesn't seem like I'd be narrowly limited, vs. say special education.
I also don't want to head towards a career where getting into a grad program is next to impossible. I cannot afford to pay student loans and work $9 an hour while having to re-apply year after year, which is why I scrapped my plans for a Master's in Speech-Language pathology. I need to have a reasonable expectation that i can get into a program with decent grades.
I can see myself happy in education with adult populations but I understand that with just a Master's I'd be limited to teaching at community college and the pay is poor. I need to be able to pay my bills. I'm certainly not looking to get rich.
Library science was my original plan but I have read SO many awful stories about people not being able to find jobs, and I really don't want to work in a public library by default. Just like with social work, I do not want to work for CPS or with children really. I like kids fine, but I feel I'd be more suited to working with other populations. I thought special education would be okay if I could work one on one but I am not sure.
I am also 41 so I cannot choose something that will be physically difficult as I get older.
Okay now I am rambling.. if you were me, what steps would you take to fully research your options and make a choice?
It sounds to me like you have done good research. You are correct about LS not being a good market, and also right on about community college. I know several people in social work, and they are all doing pretty well. No horror stories at all. They also haven't had to relocate for work. I don't think it's a hot market in particular, but it seems to be steady enough. Of the three you mentioned, it would be my choice. I already have a graduate degree in education and work with adults, and it's pretty tough (but not impossible) to find full time work. However, most people I know have spent at least several years working part time before finding it.
Library Science: beware, cutbacks are here. My system got rid of 1/2 its school based Media Specialists a couple years ago (close to 100). They discovered a mistake was made and brought a few back the next year but all the elementary and middle schools share one. This is being driven, in our case, by the Gates and Broad Foundation funding (grants) which "encourages new paradigms of information delivery". I'm sure that Gates has no ulterior motives for getting rid of books. One of his acolytes, John Deasey, just got rid of the librarians in Los Angeles public schools.
Social Work: Low pay, demoralizing working conditions.
Master's Degree: Special Ed is growing and many areas can't find enough teachers. The problem with a Master's for a new teacher is that you're more expensive to hire than a person with only a Bachelor's is. As mentioned there is a chronic shortage in Speech Pathology.
Edit: Oops, I now see you've already discovered a couple of the issues I mentioned.
Public library wouldn't necessarily be a bad gig. The ones here are always busy and people get upset when they're closed for bad weather. My oldest daughter (BFA) works for the public system as a roving librarian who visits nursing homes and daycares. Think Bookmobile on steroids.
The most important part of selecting a career is honest and brutal self evaluation. Just about every "desirable" occupation is going to have a lot of competition. If your abilities allow you to distinguish yourself from the competition, then the career choice is valid. The competition you will face in your field is much much stiffer than the competition you will face getting into a program, so don't think that you have a fair shot at a career just because someone is willing to let you pay to study it.<snip>
I understand what you are saying and I agree with you for the most part.. but I would also say "not always".
For example, the program I was previously intending on completing, Speech-Language Pathology, is only offered at the Bachelor's degree level at two schools within a reasonable distance from me. There just are not many programs available because of the necessity for an opportunity for clinical hours and so forth. The program is highly competitive at my particular state school, but pretty easy to get into had I chosen to attend the other school that offers the degree, which is a private university. I was not confident in my ability to get sufficient financial aid to pay the tuition at the private school though, so I didn't apply. I wonder now if I should have.
At any rate I would argue that the reason it is super competitive at my state school vs the private is because people are obviously opting for the state school with tuition of around 8k a year vs the private at 24k a year. The downside of opting for the state school is that they are super limited on space when it comes to being able to place students in clinical positions during their final year. As the health professions advisor explained to me, previous SLP program students were able to re-take required pre-requisite courses for the program over and over until they were able to get a 4.0 and increase their chances of acceptance. The university put a stop to that because it gave those with the money to re-take everything umpteen times an unfair advantage, and they changed the entrance guidelines so now, re-taking anything is a strike against you but this change was recent and because of the way things were happening before I transferred, the average acceptance GPA is still around 3.8 but that was artificially inflated.
From all I have read and heard though, once you do get through grad school in this field, finding a position is not an issue. The shortage is considerable. I think the reasons behind why a program is particularly competitive needs to be considered.
At any rate I don't think that becoming an SLP is in my future. Sorry to ramble on about it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by marie5v
It sounds to me like you have done good research. You are correct about LS not being a good market, and also right on about community college. I know several people in social work, and they are all doing pretty well. No horror stories at all. They also haven't had to relocate for work. I don't think it's a hot market in particular, but it seems to be steady enough. Of the three you mentioned, it would be my choice. I already have a graduate degree in education and work with adults, and it's pretty tough (but not impossible) to find full time work. However, most people I know have spent at least several years working part time before finding it.
Thanks for the input. I am doing a lot of research into the social work field and I think maybe if I can find my niche it might be good for me. I am researching a specialization in either Gerontology or Forensic/Criminal Justice social work at this point. Both are very much areas I can see myself working happily in but obviously they are sooo different, I'd need to figure out which was more practical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person
Library Science: beware, cutbacks are here. My system got rid of 1/2 its school based Media Specialists a couple years ago (close to 100). They discovered a mistake was made and brought a few back the next year but all the elementary and middle schools share one. This is being driven, in our case, by the Gates and Broad Foundation funding (grants) which "encourages new paradigms of information delivery". I'm sure that Gates has no ulterior motives for getting rid of books. One of his acolytes, John Deasey, just got rid of the librarians in Los Angeles public schools.
Social Work: Low pay, demoralizing working conditions.
Master's Degree: Special Ed is growing and many areas can't find enough teachers. The problem with a Master's for a new teacher is that you're more expensive to hire than a person with only a Bachelor's is. As mentioned there is a chronic shortage in Speech Pathology.
Edit: Oops, I now see you've already discovered a couple of the issues I mentioned.
Public library wouldn't necessarily be a bad gig. The ones here are always busy and people get upset when they're closed for bad weather. My oldest daughter (BFA) works for the public system as a roving librarian who visits nursing homes and daycares. Think Bookmobile on steroids.
Do cities still have the Bookmobile? That was my absolute favorite thing growing up but as far as I knew we did not have them here in Texas. I just remember them from summers spent with my Grandmother in Maryland. The Bookmobile driver would have to kick me out! Your daughter's job sounds ideal. I have always envisioned my ideal career as something that let me be "out and about" during the day and hopefully not stuck in one place all day long.
I am wondering if a Social Work career can be carved out so that it isn't stereotypically awful? I can see why it would be depressing and frustrating to work with certain groups but perhaps not so with others..?
I am reaching out to a friend of a friend who has been in the social work field for a couple decades now and has worn several hats. She's now teaching in some capacity. I am hoping she'll be willing to let me pick her brain.
I am wondering if a Social Work career can be carved out so that it isn't stereotypically awful? I can see why it would be depressing and frustrating to work with certain groups but perhaps not so with others..?
When I was unemployed MANY years ago, I had to talk to a career counselor and I told her that one of the things I was thinking of going into was Social Work.
She told me I needed a Masters (obviously, that's what she did) and warned me the pay was very low.
But other than that, it seemed like a pretty decent gig.
I would like some input on how to best research potential career plans where I can have a good understanding of things like unemployment rates within a field, realistic starting salaries, rates of 'burnout', and so on.
Whatever I choose, I will be going to grad school, so I need to find something that is not simply "hot" right now but fairly stable and chances will be good for me to actually be able to get a job when I graduate. I am currently working on a BA in English with a minor in Sociology. I have taken plenty of Psych courses also, almost enough for that to be a second minor. I am considering/have considered the following:
Social Work -- MSW- I would prefer to work in mental health, or maybe with older or even geriatric populations vs kids
Library Science -- MLIS/MLS
Education -- Master's in Special Education, Administration perhaps, or adult education
Pay is always important but not as important to me as the availability of jobs and the ability to change from one job to another with the same degree. For this reason, social work seems like a good fit because it doesn't seem like I'd be narrowly limited, vs. say special education.
...if you were me, what steps would you take to fully research your options and make a choice?
I wouldn't focus on how much money you'd make after completing your Masters. With the amount of people earning them today, it's no longer a guarantee for more money. If you can find an entry-level position after receiving your BA, I'd look for one in Social Work or Education. Then, after about six months to a year, I'd narrow my Masters programs and see which schools offer flexible programs for working adults. This way, your employers aren't paying for your Masters degree without any experience, as others have noted; and, if they offer tuition assistance, you can get your Masters while in their employment and receive money doing so! After your Masters you can apply for other, higher-paying positions, or even another position at another company. You might have to wait a year or so depending on the requirements of tuition assistance if offered.
As far as research, talk to those in the field, especially those in management or at the executive level. Ask what their "path" looked like. Also, if you can attend a conference given by a professional association in either of these fields, go for it. Sort of put yourself in environments where people who work in these fields frequent, and then ask questions...also it's a great way to network!
You say you are 41. In what industry do you have work experience so you can match your experience to a better job requiring an advanced degree?
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Your daughter's job sounds ideal. I have always envisioned my ideal career as something that let me be "out and about" during the day and hopefully not stuck in one place all day long. 
