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If you understand how college funding works, financial aid is based on your finances, not your GPA. If she had done better in high school, she could have gotten MERIT aid, based on her GPA and test scores. If she did well enough on her ACT, she could still get some merit aid at some private schools, who knows, you didn't look into that since you have been saying since she was 12 that she would go the CC route. Her CC is still more than our kids are paying...
If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that much of financial aid is based on GPA.
Doesn't matter what she could have done...that's water under the bridge. Why bring it up? Only half of the kids out there can graduate in the top half of their class and the cut off for grades based financial aid is a lot higher than average.
And no on the merit for high ACT scores. I have a friend who had a perfect score but was disqualified for the Michigan Merit scholarship because her father earned too much. The truth is, they use a combination of grades and family income to pay out the least amount of aid possible.
Even in your deluded world, you have to admit that most people don't qualify for financial aid whether it's need based or grades based. By definition, half of the people out there are above/below the median, in each case, and will not qualify. That's a lot of people who are not qualifying for aid. You have people like my friend who had the grades but was denied the scholarship because of family income and you have people who don't have the grades to get the scholarship in the first place.
My dd does not qualify for aid. Even if she had the grades, she would be disqualified because of our family income. Dd#2 isn't going to qualify either. No matter how many times you repeat that aid is so easy to get, it doesn't become easy to get for those of us in the real world. We're on our own. Unless my dd's follow in my footsteps and use cc as a stepping stone to get a transfer scholarship to private school. There won't be anything for state schools.
Have you actually looked at the average ACT score????? Have you looked at the level at which scholarships are awarded? Seriously, you need to.
I did community college to university. I knew where I planned to transfer to one semesters before I was done when I was finishing up major courses. I only needed one course to graduate (a lab science) but I still needed to re-take two courses to transfer in. I kind of bugged me in a way but I was fine with it and ended up with an A and a B respectfully. It still was a relatively "easy" semester for my last in community college.
Is community college "easier" than university, yes. Smaller classes so professors know who you are in the 100/200 level courses rather than in university where you have 100-400 students depending on how big the class is. I knew a good handful of the students just from my freshman dorm in a 100 level history course I took in my first university eight years ago. However let's also remember that we also don't typically see 300 and 400 level courses in community colleges. FYI, 300 and 400 level courses can be tough at times depending on how it's taught.
I think that CC is easier because of the course levels. I think it's more comfortable because of the smaller class sizes and actually having teachers instead of TA's. My teachers at CC cared if I learned. My TA's at university couldn't have cared less. It was a job they had to get through and they did. They didn't choose to teach, they were told to teach if they wanted their tuition paid.
If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that much of financial aid is based on GPA.
Doesn't matter what she could have done...that's water under the bridge. Why bring it up? Only half of the kids out there can graduate in the top half of their class and the cut off for grades based financial aid is a lot higher than average.
And no on the merit for high ACT scores. I have a friend who had a perfect score but was disqualified for the Michigan Merit scholarship because her father earned too much. The truth is, they use a combination of grades and family income to pay out the least amount of aid possible.
Even in your deluded world, you have to admit that most people don't qualify for financial aid whether it's need based or grades based. By definition, half of the people out there are above/below the median, in each case, and will not qualify. That's a lot of people who are not qualifying for aid. You have people like my friend who had the grades but was denied the scholarship because of family income and you have people who don't have the grades to get the scholarship in the first place.
My dd does not qualify for aid. Even if she had the grades, she would be disqualified because of our family income. Dd#2 isn't going to qualify either. No matter how many times you repeat that aid is so easy to get, it doesn't become easy to get for those of us in the real world. We're on our own. Unless my dd's follow in my footsteps and use cc as a stepping stone to get a transfer scholarship to private school. There won't be anything for state schools.
Have you actually looked at the average ACT score????? Have you looked at the level at which scholarships are awarded? Seriously, you need to.
No, MERIT aid is based on just that MERIT. Financial aid is based on your financial situation and what you put on your FAFSA. There are SOME scholarships, generally outside/private scholarships, the have a financial component but we are talking about merit aid from colleges. In my deluded world ALL of our kids' friends got scholarships of varying levels because of their GPA/ACT scores. We qualify for NO financial aid, none (well we can take unsubsidized federal loans like everyone can). Everything our kids got was based on their grades or talent.
The perfect ACT score would have granted your friend's daughter full-tuition, minimum, at 100's of colleges around the country.
I NEVER said aid was easy to get, I said MERIT aid makes most private schools LESS than state schools for above average students with a B average and good test scores. Did you look into any private schools? Did you run numbers? No, because you just can't understand that this happens, frequently.
The average ACT score nationally isn't that great, but there are places where it is--our high school, just a run of the mill public school, has an average ACT score of 25 with about 80% of the students taking the test. Most of the high schools around here are similar. It's really not that hard to do.
I'm not going to ever say that a four year college is going to be less expensive for a B student then a community college, but I'm going to back golfgal up in saying that there are many colleges that offer substantial MERIT aid (not tied to family's income) for those students. My daughter went to college for about $18,000 a year to a private college with a sticker price of around $35,000. My older son's scholarship was slightly more, but his college also had a higher pricetag. Penn State main campus for in state students is almost $17,000 for tuition alone. 94% (!) of the students at my daughters under grad college receive grants or scholarships with the average amount being $22,000. They do not accept any federal aid and students do not fill out the FAFSA. It's no secret that it's not hard to get into her college, but she was well prepared for jobs after college and got her masters at a well known University.
I'm not going to ever say that a four year college is going to be less expensive for a B student then a community college, but I'm going to back golfgal up in saying that there are many colleges that offer substantial MERIT aid (not tied to family's income) for those students. My daughter went to college for about $18,000 a year to a private college with a sticker price of around $35,000. My older son's scholarship was slightly more, but his college also had a higher pricetag. Penn State main campus for in state students is almost $17,000 for tuition alone. 94% (!) of the students at my daughters under grad college receive grants or scholarships with the average amount being $22,000. They do not accept any federal aid and students do not fill out the FAFSA. It's no secret that it's not hard to get into her college, but she was well prepared for jobs after college and got her masters at a well known University.
I'm not going to ever say that a four year college is going to be less expensive for a B student then a community college, but I'm going to back golfgal up in saying that there are many colleges that offer substantial MERIT aid (not tied to family's income) for those students. My daughter went to college for about $18,000 a year to a private college with a sticker price of around $35,000.
No one is doubting there is a lot of Merit aid to be had (measured in the thousands). As you explained, paying $18K for a $35K is absolutely doable.
I think the disconnect comes with how people view the price tag of college. I calculate the cost of education to mean books, tuition, and R&B. Meaning if they live in student housing, that's the check I have to write out. When people say "we pay $22K at a local private after Merit aid" they mean that is there out of pocket expense (just as I explained above). They are not talking about insurance, gas, clothes, car repair expenses etc. When someone asks me how much my daughter paid for college, I say "about $4K for tuition after scholarships and around $8K for R&B". Hence, we paid about $12K a year which to me at least, is darn cheap for living on campus. I have yet to find a good student (not incredible) that pays less $$'s going to a regional MN private.
this isn't a debate which is better. I get why a student does not want to go to huge public college 10 miles from there home and with 60,000 students. Also, the privates are not subsidized to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars like our Flagship (UofMN) so it is logical why privates costs more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday
I've helped several kids, as well as my three, find good (affordable) colleges and do think I know a thing or two about the subject.
Perfect. How many kids do you know that have an above average ACT (25ish) and a better than average high school GPA (3.2?) that more-or-less get a $40K+ in Merit aid?
In your opinion, would you say it is common for privates to be lower than $12K for tuition after Merit aid? What some on this board are saying goes against everything I have heard. I'm not alone. I've asked for some specific college examples four times now. Others have asked for examples as well.
Perfect. How many kids do you know that have an above average ACT (25ish) and a better than average high school GPA (3.2?) that more-or-less get a $40K+ in Merit aid?
In your opinion, would you say it is common for privates to be lower than $12K for tuition after Merit aid? What some on this board are saying goes against everything I have heard. I'm not alone. I've asked for some specific college examples four times now. Others have asked for examples as well.
I think it's very uncommon for a B student to pay less then 12K after merit aid. However, my flagship state U has tuition that is $16,000 PLUS room and board, so our goal was to pay less then the State U's cost.
I think it's very uncommon for a B student to pay less then 12K after merit aid. However, my flagship state U has tuition that is $16,000 PLUS room and board, so our goal was to pay less then the State U's cost.
$16,000 for tuition at a state college is way out of the norm. The average tuition at a public college is under $9,000.
What's even more interesting is the average total cost of attendance after scholarships, grants, and aid.
Public 2-year college: $4,350
Public 4-year college: $5,750
Private 4-year college: $15,680
I haven't seen any indication that there are enough these private colleges with these awesome financial aid packages for even half of the B students who want to go to college.
I think it's very uncommon for a B student to pay less then 12K after merit aid.
Then we agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday
However, my flagship state U has tuition that is $16,000 PLUS room and board, so our goal was to pay less then the State U's cost.
Another question, you really got a darn good package. Congrats! If you don't mind sharing, how did your kids rack-and-stack? (GPA and ACT score)? I'm guessing they were pretty sharp.
No, MERIT aid is based on just that MERIT. Financial aid is based on your financial situation and what you put on your FAFSA. There are SOME scholarships, generally outside/private scholarships, the have a financial component but we are talking about merit aid from colleges. In my deluded world ALL of our kids' friends got scholarships of varying levels because of their GPA/ACT scores. We qualify for NO financial aid, none (well we can take unsubsidized federal loans like everyone can). Everything our kids got was based on their grades or talent.
The perfect ACT score would have granted your friend's daughter full-tuition, minimum, at 100's of colleges around the country.
I NEVER said aid was easy to get, I said MERIT aid makes most private schools LESS than state schools for above average students with a B average and good test scores. Did you look into any private schools? Did you run numbers? No, because you just can't understand that this happens, frequently.
The average ACT score nationally isn't that great, but there are places where it is--our high school, just a run of the mill public school, has an average ACT score of 25 with about 80% of the students taking the test. Most of the high schools around here are similar. It's really not that hard to do.
Tell that to my friend who was denied merit aid due to her family's finances. Tell that to my aunt who spent 30 years working in the financial aid office of a state university. It's a combination of the two. You are more likely to get need based aid without grades though. Merit aid can get nixed if it's determined you don't need it.
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How many kids do you know that have an above average ACT (25ish) and a better than average high school GPA (3.2?) that more-or-less get a $40K+ in Merit aid? 
Tell that to my aunt who spent 30 years working in the financial aid office of a state university. 
