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Can someone tell me why they think Yale for instance teaches their generals classes better than a community college? I come from the school of thought that a CC or Harvard teaches Accounting 101, Psyc 101, Calc 1-6, statistics, etc at the same level as any college. It's pretty basic topics and not much more than advanced high school.
Granted, the students are on average a lot brighter at an Ivy. So putting it another way, will a smart CC student learn more in Spanish in Dartmouth over a smart student in a CC? If so why?
I don't think that prestigious schools necessarily teach their general classes "better", either. I think that the motivation and learning abilities of so many of the students at the very prestigious colleges are just so much better than at other schools that the students learn more in the same amount of time (a semester), primarily because they want to learn and have greater ability to do so.
CCs' student bodies are very different. Most CCs have open enrollment except for a few select courses of study, ie, if the person has a pulse and registers, he or she is in. Some CCs, mine included, have programs in which people without HS diplomas can enroll and work towards an associate degree while also earning their GEDs. Many CC students probably wouldn't get into selective four year colleges. Some CC students don't quite know what they want to do and going into the military isn't their cup of tea. Many CC students are adults -- from twenty-somethings finally getting their acts together to veterans to displaced homemakers to career-changers to seniors taking free classes.
IMO, there's a bigger drop off between the students at prestigious schools like the Ivies, Stanford, MITs, etc and the students at the next tier of public/private four year schools than there is between the students at four year schools in general and community college students. While some four year colleges are pretty selective, many public four year colleges have largely open admissions, and the same with some private colleges. Partying and socializing count for a lot more with many students than academics, and many four year college students get the boot at the end of their freshmen year just like they do at community colleges.
Those link to the same story and why the "" around merit...do you not understand what it means??
One example from a school close to your house:
http://www.canisius.edu/admissions/f...-aid/index.dot net cost after aid is about $14,000 on average. Now this is average--some get more, some get less because that is how averages work, but the base cost of a state school in the same area is $19,000....
IMO, there's a bigger drop off between the students at prestigious schools like the Ivies, Stanford, MITs, etc and the students at the next tier of public/private four year schools than there is between the students at four year schools in general and community college students. While some four year colleges are pretty selective, many public four year colleges have largely open admissions, and the same with some private colleges. Partying and socializing count for a lot more with many students than academics, and many four year college students get the boot at the end of their freshmen year just like they do at community colleges.
As I have said before, perception becomes reality. If you don't get into a program out of HS, (transferring credits or not) you are not getting into the highly rated public or private programs. And as GG pointed out, the $$'s dry-up if you don't go into the 4 year right out of college. All true. But each person needs to run the numbers on a case-by-case basis. But for B students all of my experience and conversations say the money doesn't flow (unless you are a highly recruited athlete). I am still waiting for detailed examples.
For generals, I suspect the level of difficulty is a tie. It is a wider margin for technical classes, comp classes etc. My DS said the service academy he attends at is about 20% faster pace in the technical classes versus the CC when he took then 11th grade. He currently is attending the "scholars" program (top 5% by invite). He said the scholars work load is a solid 2X more with an intense pace (about 1/3 of the classes are "Scholars"). The class size is maybe 8 kids and taught by Ex-Marshall/Fulbright/Rhodes Prof's. His comp teacher is a published writer and incredibly talented and passionate. The program is designed to groom future scholars for the SA's. They then groom them how to apply, what to expect, etc. I'm very sure the Ivy's have programs in place like that for their top students. That's part of the reason why the scholarship value is north of $400K. $50K of that is because he gets paid over 4 years but they get an incredible education. So yes we agree that there is a difference in the quality of education from tier 1 to tier 2 schools (even large differences inside of the very same schools).
As I have said before, perception becomes reality. If you don't get into a program out of HS, (transferring credits or not) you are not getting into the highly rated public or private programs. And as GG pointed out, the $$'s dry-up if you don't go into the 4 year right out of college. All true. But each person needs to run the numbers on a case-by-case basis. But for B students all of my experience and conversations say the money doesn't flow (unless you are a highly recruited athlete). I am still waiting for detailed examples.
For generals, I suspect the level of difficulty is a tie. It is a wider margin for technical classes, comp classes etc. My DS said the service academy he attends at is about 20% faster pace in the technical classes versus the CC when he took then 11th grade. He currently is attending the "scholars" program (top 5% by invite). He said the scholars work load is a solid 2X more with an intense pace (about 1/3 of the classes are "Scholars"). The class size is maybe 8 kids and taught by Ex-Marshall/Fulbright/Rhodes Prof's. His comp teacher is a published writer and incredibly talented and passionate. The program is designed to groom future scholars for the SA's. They then groom them how to apply, what to expect, etc. I'm very sure the Ivy's have programs in place like that for their top students. That's part of the reason why the scholarship value is north of $400K. $50K of that is because he gets paid over 4 years but they get an incredible education. So yes we agree that there is a difference in the quality of education from tier 1 to tier 2 schools (even large differences inside of the very same schools).
no, there really is not....there is a difference in the quality of education from program to program across ALL schools but going to a SA doesn't make the education better than going to UMD, just different, A lot of colleges, Tier 1 or 4 have honors programs and whatnot. You can feel better about the sweatshirt you are wearing though if it makes you feel better . There are caring, passionate, outstanding professors at every college. Our daughter will be taking classes from the worlds leading expert in his field....but it's not an Ivy or SA....I still need to buy my sweatshirt though--hopefully the choices at the bookstore are good on move in day .
Can someone tell me why they think Yale for instance teaches their generals classes better than a community college? I come from the school of thought that a CC or Harvard teaches Accounting 101, Psyc 101, Calc 1-6, statistics, etc at the same level as any college. It's pretty basic topics and not much more than advanced high school.
Granted, the students are on average a lot brighter at an Ivy. So putting it another way, will a smart CC student learn more in Spanish in Dartmouth over a smart student in a CC? If so why?
A good CC instructor makes sure that the smartest and poorest student in the class are both engaged. The lecture material itself is the same. The Yale course might have harder tests, longer papers to write (no TAs at the CC) or more difficult assignments. A student at Yale is going to learn a lot more from interacting with her fellow students, both in and out of the classroom. However, not that much higher level intellectual discussion goes on during 100-200 level classes anyhow. Making a CC a good place to get thru the prereqs and the University a good place to take courses in your major.
What you learn in a class is very much dependent on your own interest and motivation. A highly motivated CC student will get a lot of their courses, no matter what. An unmotivated Yale student can slide through their Spanish class without really learning anything.
They do in this state. A number of schools sent me letters saying they'd pay for everything. They're schools you've probably never heard of and would be affectionately referred to as 'Podunk State' here at CD if they weren't 15 miles away from NYC. It's an automatic thing for being above a certain numerical threshold. I know the state of VA does that too.
One of my friends took the deal and didn't pay a cent for college.
I mean, honestly, for parents who know they can't help, I'd push their kids towards that threshold. It's not really that high. In real life, it doesn't really matter what school you go to anyway, unless you want to go to medical school, dental school or a Top JD or MBA program. CC or not, no difference.
Nobody gives a sh@t about your shiny little diploma from Dartmouth University.
I didn't go to Dartmouth but the attached article suggests that it does matter where you go to school.
This does not suggest that a person needs to go to the most selective 4 or 5 schools in the country but it does suggest that what school you go to does matter.
This does not suggest that a person needs to go to the most selective 4 or 5 schools in the country but it does suggest that what school you go to does matter.
That is not what it is saying at all...it's basically saying that minority students don't finish college at the same rate as white students and that more white students attend "more selective" schools...but they are going with the top 450 schools as being "more selective". That really isn't saying much....
That is not what it is saying at all...it's basically saying that minority students don't finish college at the same rate as white students and that more white students attend "more selective" schools...but they are going with the top 450 schools as being "more selective". That really isn't saying much....
You can choose to read it that way if you like. There is one comment that stands out in light of this discussion and it is:
"Perhaps most incredibly, children who score between 1,000 and 1,099 on the SAT and attend a selective college are more likely to graduate than those who scored above 1,200 and attended an open-access college."
It really does matter WHERE your kids go to college.
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. There are caring, passionate, outstanding professors at every college. Our daughter will be taking classes from the worlds leading expert in his field....but it's not an Ivy or SA....I still need to buy my sweatshirt though--hopefully the choices at the bookstore are good on move in day 
