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Another bad thing about UoP is that you don't have the option of cheaply buying or renting used textbooks. I got most of my textbooks for CC courses for under $50. UoP will charge you $90-95 per course for electronic materials regardless.
This is one of the things that I wish all colleges would get on board with. Textbook publishers update their versions so often that it's a environmental burden to keep printing books. Colleges can greatly help the environment by giving all students electronic copies of the textbooks and tacking the charge onto the tuition and fees.
Who says not for profit or non-profit means nobody profits? I'm not a big U of P supporter but at least they don't pretend that they're not making any money.
I just saw a video where the president of Charter Oak said that they have a marketing budget of $250k while UoP has a budget of $250 million. UoP spends more on marketing than education. They were almost put on notice or probation, and their enrollment is dropping by the hundreds of thousands. What is there solution? Spend more on marketing!
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Originally Posted by NJBest
This is one of the things that I wish all colleges would get on board with. Textbook publishers update their versions so often that it's a environmental burden to keep printing books. Colleges can greatly help the environment by giving all students electronic copies of the textbooks and tacking the charge onto the tuition and fees.
I like the idea of ebooks, but many times, the new editions only have minor changes. Ebooks should be significantly cheaper than printed books. In my graduate program, we mostly used free, peer-reviewed, articles and ebooks books published by experts in the field. The ebooks were about $20-30.
[quote=L210;31560729]I just saw a video where the president of Charter Oak said that they have a marketing budget of $250k while UoP has a budget of $250 million. UoP spends more on marketing than education. They were almost put on notice or probation, and their enrollment is dropping by the hundreds of thousands. What is there solution? Spend more on marketing!
And the beloved and world reknowned Harvard has an endowment of approximately 31 billion. Yes I know that most of that money will be used appropriately to further many students' education but how much is spent to impress parents of future students, alumni, etc. and to attract the best of the best? And do they have to sell themselves like U of P? No but they still must compete amongst the top tier ivy leagues. I know U of P is not in the same league and it's ridiculous the amount of money that they spend on marketing and may very well spend themselves into oblivion (that's a problem for both them and their current students) but again I don't have a problem with for profits and advertising as long as it's not false advertising. I think that they're simply trying to acquire students by trying to yell louder in a crowded field of colleges, for profit and non-profit. Also evidently they've cleaned up their act to not be placed on probation.
It is not my intention to defend U of P. But it is my intention to support the right of the free market in education. Let's not kid ourselves here. Education is a commodity that's sold just like anything else.
It is not my intention to defend U of P. But it is my intention to support the right of the free market in education. Let's not kid ourselves here. Education is a commodity that's sold just like anything else.
Can you point me to the person who said there shouldn't be a free market in education? When someone asks about for profit colleges vs community college it is fair to criticize the for profit schools. That does not constitute opposing a free market.
It's better to think of building blocks on top of one another, or laying tracks that will allow you to connect with other tracks.
The here-and-now can be short sighted. You need to be cognizant of where your credits will transfer over too.
Your local universities might accept the credits you've accrued at your community college. But they may not accept them from ITT or the University of P.
Listen... sometimes trying to take the shortest route ends up costing you more money in the end. If a university will not accept credits from a small for-profit institute of learning, out of fear of grade inflation going on at that institute, then you'll have to take all those courses over again anyways, and fork over all that money again.
And the beloved and world reknowned Harvard has an endowment of approximately 31 billion. Yes I know that most of that money will be used appropriately to further many students' education but how much is spent to impress parents of future students, alumni, etc. and to attract the best of the best? And do they have to sell themselves like U of P? No but they still must compete amongst the top tier ivy leagues. I know U of P is not in the same league and it's ridiculous the amount of money that they spend on marketing and may very well spend themselves into oblivion (that's a problem for both them and their current students) but again I don't have a problem with for profits and advertising as long as it's not false advertising. I think that they're simply trying to acquire students by trying to yell louder in a crowded field of colleges, for profit and non-profit. Also evidently they've cleaned up their act to not be placed on probation.
It is not my intention to defend U of P. But it is my intention to support the right of the free market in education. Let's not kid ourselves here. Education is a commodity that's sold just like anything else.
The difference between Harvard and UoP is that Harvard spends a lot on education. Harvard's main focus is education and research; that's why it has the reputation it has. Harvard attracts the best and brightest and ends up giving them a nearly free education. UoP advertises to attract anyone and everyone for their financial aid money even if that means taking advantage of people who aren't prepared for college. If UoP were smart, it would focus on improving its reputation instead of using the same sales tactics. From personal experience, they have engaged in deception. They have been fined for breaking laws and discrimination. There is a free market which is working since UoP has been losing hundreds of thousands of students. There is also free speech. Everyone is free to give their opinions of UoP, positive or negative.
From how I read it, they didn't clean up their act to not be placed on probation. Their accrediting agency just decided not to do it because it was a borderline kind of thing.
Can you point me to the person who said there shouldn't be a free market in education? When someone asks about for profit colleges vs community college it is fair to criticize the for profit schools. That does not constitute opposing a free market.
If you want to criticize U of P go right ahead. I'll be third in line behind you and L210. I did not say that anyone deliberately opposed the free market in this thread and as L210 has pointed out the free market is working by U of P losing students. The point that I'm trying to make is there is a place in the free market for for profit schools to participate, whether U of P or many others, and whether you think they do not equivalate to community colleges or non-profit is just an opinion, one of many, that is shared on this board and according to you it's "fair to criticize the for profit schools". No one said anything specifically about the free market but read the threads, they infer that they'd prefer U of P not to exist, and of course by being extinguished they will not be participating in a free market any longer, as the other for profits, with less funds than U of P, compete against the non-profits. Sure that's how a free market works but let's keep it a level playing field. Don't hide behind your non-profit status.
A lot of people dont have a high opinion of either CC or for profits, but CCs are actually often very good. My wife goes to a CC after attending a big university and the workload and quality of classes is higher at the CC, it is much cheaper too. Often classes are taught by college professors who teach at a CC on the side, or professionals in their field. For basic classes they are often on par with college. For technical trades that dont require 4 year degrees they also offer a very good education.
For profits have an all around bad rep. There are some exceptions. For instance Full Sail is respectable within the music recording industry, but it is focused solely on doing that. Likewise some of the video game design schools have good reputations with the industry. However, they are specialized for profits. For profits like Phoenix often have a very bad rep. On top of this they charge like they are a top notch private non-profit University. Im sure some programs at specific campuses taught by the right teacher is of quality, but often you get a low quality education.
Furthermore non-profits are now making flexible and online programs that are much higher quality and cheaper than for profits.
The issue with for profits is they are too interested in making a profit. So instead of improving the school they spend money giving profit to the owners/investors and marketing. A non-profit university doesnt have owners/investors. So any surplus money is put back in the school.
That is news to me, but they are only accredited for now.
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The Criteria (2013 Criteria for Accreditation) and Core Components that are the subject of the report are: Criterion Two, Core Component 2.C, “the governing board of the institution is sufficiently autonomous to make decisions in the best interest of the institution and to ensure its integrity”; Criterion Three, Core Component 3.A, “the institution’s degree programs are appropriate to higher education,” Core Component 3.B, “the institution demonstrates that the exercise of intellectual inquiry and the acquisition, application, and integration of broad learning and skills are integral to its educational programs,” and Core Component 3.C, “the institution has the faculty and staff needed for effective, high-quality programs and student services”; Criterion Four, Core Component 4.B, “the institution demonstrates a commitment to educational achievement and improvement through ongoing assessment of student learning”; Criterion Five, Core Component 5.B, “the institution’s governance and administrative structures promote effective leadership and support collaborative processes that enable the institution to fulfill its mission”; and Assumed Practice B.2.b, “instructors teaching at the doctoral level have a record of recognized scholarship, creative endeavor, or achievement in practice commensurate with doctoral expectations.”
Also, every public community college and state university is regionally accredited, and many of those schools have online programs. So considering the tens of thousands of dollars in cost differential mentioned earlier, I'm not impressed.
That is news to me, but they are only accredited for now.
So they were put on notice and are still on notice. Being put on notice is not as severe as being placed on probation. Considering that UoP has been regionally accredited since 1978 and has so much money to fix any problems, I doubt they'll lose accreditation or let it go anytime soon.
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