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In regards to service academies, having a guaranteed job (with great benefits and pay) after college is darn motivating; along with the fact it takes a lot of effort to get there in the first place.
And effort to stay there.
Of course, the guaranteed job comes with some heavy responsibility.
Most graduates also end up with graduate degrees, including a hefty number with doctorates. About 2% of USMA grads go directly to medical school. I think if you extend your service commitment they will pay for grad school.
Oh, they do flunk out. But the ones that do not are bright and motivated. For West Point, the retention rate from first to second tear is 92% and 81% graduate in 4 years. A very small number are allowed to repeat a course. If you fail one, you are usually gone. Small classes, with everyone reciting every day in every class.
Here are 50+ schools with a higher graduation rate.
The point is that military academies by no means have some special recipe to get students who "care". They are selective and only allow students in who should be going to college. Any college that does that will get the same high graduation rates.
As we tell everyone to go to college, more of them will fail, it is simple math. If we want to make all the kids "care" about succeeding, than give them another path to success than college.
Many college students are not mature enough to be there. They need a couple of years (or decades) to really come to the understanding of what college is all about.
Also, not *everyone* is cut out for a college education, but parents do not want to admit that their little sproggen isn't going to be the next Einstein, so they push them into going to college when a technical school or simply going to work would suit them much better.
Yep, but in fairness this is the message the MSM promotes in a thousand ways.
Parents aren't immune to propaganda.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersParkGuy
Welcome to the real world.
I used to teach for a while. One of the biggest mistakes teachers make is they spend their careers angry they had to teach the students they got, rather than the students they wish they had. What class is ever comprised uniformly of bright, eager, attentive students? Only the ones teachers fantasize about.
Or, as noted in others' posts above, the ones in good colleges. TWENTY MILLION students now in college--who honestly thinks that most of them are going to belong there?
The point is that military academies by no means have some special recipe to get students who "care". They are selective and only allow students in who should be going to college. Any college that does that will get the same high graduation rates.
As we tell everyone to go to college, more of them will fail, it is simple math. If we want to make all the kids "care" about succeeding, than give them another path to success than college.
Success in a military academy requires more than just sitting in a classroom. Every kid who goes to one is capable of doing the academics. Some of the first year dropouts do so within a few days of arrival when they find they are not a good fit for the school because they cannot adapt to the intense regimentation and physical demands. They have successful careers at other schools. Some develop medical problems that disqualify them from military service.
However, my original post was in response to a question about places where you will see entire classes of motivated, attentive students. At the military academies you will. You will also find them in honors programs at colleges and universities all over the country. I mentioned that.
Thanks for your thoughts, everyone. I guess I was just venting. This has been going on for several years now. My dean says to not worry so much about it, that it isn't all that unusual. Guess I should listen to him.
I can't change this semester because we are well into it and everyone knows what is expected, (from them and from me), but next semester I think I'll go ahead and upload the test bank, but not waste class time reviewing it after a lecture. Those who are serious will put in the time to discover the correct answer. They can focus their study time. The questions on the test banks are what I think are important to know, and hopefully things that they will remember long after this class is over.
Someone asked . . . I teach in a very integrated community. In this class, Meteorology 101, the mix is pretty even between Blacks, Whites, and Hispanics. There are high achieving students from all groups and failing students from all groups also. The student-athletes? I've had to talk to the coaches and advisors and tell them that the student-athletes should not take my class because it is too difficult. Almost without exception, every student-athlete believes that they are bound for a major university on an athletic scholarship. It's admirable that they have dreams and goals, but if they were any good, they wouldn't be at a community college and would already be at a university.
Thanks again for listening. I guess I really shouldn't care . . . but I do! I'm touching young lives, and I try to intersperse "life lessons" into my lectures. Things that will help them grow into responsible, contributing, and educated members of society.
Teachers KILL to get honors courses! The students actually do the homework and come to class prepared! it's college as we were always told it would be, but unfortunately, these days it falls far short.
Someone asked . . . I teach in a very integrated community. In this class, Meteorology 101...
Just wondering, why is your meteorology 101 class so difficult? Is it included in general education requirements? The 101 classes are usually aimed at being an introduction to the subject ... It sounds that the class is heavily memory focused versus critical thinking since you've stressed tests versus writing assignments. (When I took Met 101, it was heavily writing and very interesting.)
Also: not having answers to confirm practice questions is absolutely terrible as a student. It's great to know immediately after you've done the questions that you are either (a) correct or (b) incorrect, then figure out why you were incorrect if you were.
It sounds that the class is heavily memory focused versus critical thinking
As it should be for an intro course. I have taken lower level intro classes at a CC as well as two universities. The intro course at all three were the same. Listen to lecture, read the chapters, and take primarily multiple choice exams. Every now and then a teacher might throw in a paper or project but it usually didn't amount to much weight on the final grade. Critical thinking and intensive writing didn't come until the upper level undergrad courses.
As it should be for an intro course. I have taken lower level intro classes at a CC as well as two universities. The intro course at all three were the same. Listen to lecture, read the chapters, and take primarily multiple choice exams. Every now and then a teacher might throw in a paper or project but it usually didn't amount to much weight on the final grade. Critical thinking and intensive writing didn't come until the upper level undergrad courses.
Of course you have, and I have as well. Can't get a Bachelor's otherwise.
The intro classes that I've taken that were rote memorization were either 100% math or in the medical route. Other intro to science classes did have tests, but had a large focus on class participation, projects and in-class experiments.
Thanks for your thoughts, everyone. I guess I was just venting. This has been going on for several years now. My dean says to not worry so much about it, that it isn't all that unusual. Guess I should listen to him.
I can't change this semester because we are well into it and everyone knows what is expected, (from them and from me), but next semester I think I'll go ahead and upload the test bank, but not waste class time reviewing it after a lecture. Those who are serious will put in the time to discover the correct answer. They can focus their study time. The questions on the test banks are what I think are important to know, and hopefully things that they will remember long after this class is over.
Someone asked . . . I teach in a very integrated community. In this class, Meteorology 101, the mix is pretty even between Blacks, Whites, and Hispanics. There are high achieving students from all groups and failing students from all groups also. The student-athletes? I've had to talk to the coaches and advisors and tell them that the student-athletes should not take my class because it is too difficult. Almost without exception, every student-athlete believes that they are bound for a major university on an athletic scholarship. It's admirable that they have dreams and goals, but if they were any good, they wouldn't be at a community college and would already be at a university.
Thanks again for listening. I guess I really shouldn't care . . . but I do! I'm touching young lives, and I try to intersperse "life lessons" into my lectures. Things that will help them grow into responsible, contributing, and educated members of society.
I definitely would NOT upload the test bank, especially if it is based, in part, from your textbook publisher. Could be troublesome. Some athletes do the cc route because of low SATs and/or to get a decent GPA for transfer. In any case, I do understand your frustration - I have already lost 2 students (of 20 in a program) for failing grades. Some are just going to fail and probably should, but you can't lower your course standards.
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It sounds that the class is heavily memory focused versus critical thinking since you've stressed tests versus writing assignments. (When I took Met 101, it was heavily writing and very interesting.)
