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I disagree and I don't think you are stating your position very clearly. The people that I know that started their own businesses had bachelors degrees in Business, English and Computer Science. I know a couple of young guys that opened their own bookstore, one who majored in history and the other had one year of college majoring in music.
Well business is one of the careers a mentioned which promotes independence. Majoring/certifying/doing business should promote independence. Degree or none. The point of business is like Nike...You just do it.
Computer science as well is a degree which promotes independence.
English.. I guess writing books and editing is something possible as well.
Notice you know a couple of guys who went into business. Their college degrees arent necessarily the reason they are successful. In business, what you know usually isnt the reason you are. It is not about what you know in business but who you know and such. How you work, your work ethic etc. Schools cant teach you how to be a good business man. This is something you just have to have in you.
Give me an example of an engineer or a scientist who majored in engineering or science and went on to open up private practices and became successful. With a bachelors more preferably. Or with a masters. Either or.
Im guessing with a doctorate in medicine many doctors open private practice clinics. But you will still need lots of schooling to become a doctor and lots of loans to open that business.
I guess dietitians can do so with a bachelors.
Nurses can do the same and work independently.
The health care field may allow this more than other fields.
But what about other fields.
If I am an engineer, I want to choose what projects I work on, and plan the design.
Scientist, I want to research exactly what I choose to research.
Just like a mechanic who gets a certification in auto-mechanics, he is free to plan his career exactly as he wants it. He can work on whatever cars he chooses to work on with out government loans or grants to practice. All he needs is a few business cards and word of mouth and he is in business.
This is the same with business, carpentry, welding, or any other blue collar professions. They dont take much to get into.
Well business is one of the careers a mentioned which promotes independence. Majoring/certifying/doing business should promote independence. Degree or none. The point of business is like Nike...You just do it.
Computer science as well is a degree which promotes independence.
English.. I guess writing books and editing is something possible as well.
Notice you know a couple of guys who went into business. Their college degrees arent necessarily the reason they are successful. In business, what you know usually isnt the reason you are. It is not about what you know in business but who you know and such. How you work, your work ethic etc. Schools cant teach you how to be a good business man. This is something you just have to have in you.
Give me an example of an engineer or a scientist who majored in engineering or science and went on to open up private practices and became successful. With a bachelors more preferably. Or with a masters. Either or.
Im guessing with a doctorate in medicine many doctors open private practice clinics. But you will still need lots of schooling to become a doctor and lots of loans to open that business.
I guess dietitians can do so with a bachelors.
Nurses can do the same and work independently.
The health care field may allow this more than other fields.
But what about other fields.
If I am an engineer, I want to choose what projects I work on, and plan the design.
Scientist, I want to research exactly what I choose to research.
Just like a mechanic who gets a certification in auto-mechanics, he is free to plan his career exactly as he wants it. He can work on whatever cars he chooses to work on with out government loans or grants to practice. All he needs is a few business cards and word of mouth and he is in business.
This is the same with business, carpentry, welding, or any other blue collar professions. They dont take much to get into.
IMO, you're not being realistic.
Almost all blue collar professions require years of hands-on experience working for someone else before individuals can start their own businesses. Furthermore, they generally require significant investment in tools and other equipment.
You get to choose your projects/jobs only if you are in business for yourself, ie, free-lancing. If you work for somebody else, you work on what you're assigned to do, and you will have to work for somebody else to get the experience that you need to start working for yourself. People are not going to hire you as a free-lancer unless you can produce references from satisfied customers. People are not going to hire you to do their accounting unless you have "CPA" after your name -- and you need to pass the CPA exam to get that, and you have to have experience in order to sit for it. People are not going to hire you as a wedding photographer unless you can show them wedding photos you've taken of others' weddings.
If you want to work independently from the get-go, then you need to start a business that doesn't require a lot of specific skills, so that your degree or lack of same isn't going to matter but even here, you will have to have good business skills and maybe some specialized skills. For example, if you started a package delivery service, you'd still have to have at least 1 vehicle, the ability to drive it, as well as the knowledge to figure out how much to charge. If you hired others to drive, you would have to know how to judge employees, and how to treat them well, etc.
Give me an example of an engineer or a scientist who majored in engineering or science and went on to open up private practices and became successful. With a bachelors more preferably. Or with a masters. Either or.
In the professional realm, in terms of what you largely speak, it is a question of being in a field where it is practical to be autonomous.
In engineering, it is not practical to be autonomous for the most part part because contracts typically need many people performing different functions. Structural engineers however perform a specific task that many times can be handled by one person. It is extremely common for them to work for themselves, probably as much so or more as pediatricians and general attorneys.
You'll need a bachelors degree and 5 years or so of experience. Masters is not necessary but it looks better.
What about for science degrees? Chemistry, Biology etc. How can one get a bachelors for say in a research science field and become an independent research scientist? It seems all scientist do is research what the big corporations tell them to or the government programs and if they dont, then say goodbye to funding and grants.
How often do you see independent research scientist researching theories they have proposed on their own or theories they feel is actually useful to society?
How do you pay for that independent research?
I would say "professional" careers are often suited to independence (although often not at first, but after experience is gained, for example, a CPA needs to have a few thousand hours of experience before getting licensed) - doctor, attorney, accountant, architect (and other building professions).
If you want to work independently from the get-go, then you need to start a business that doesn't require a lot of specific skills, so that your degree or lack of same isn't going to matter but even here, you will have to have good business skills and maybe some specialized skills. For example, if you started a package delivery service, you'd still have to have at least 1 vehicle, the ability to drive it, as well as the knowledge to figure out how much to charge. If you hired others to drive, you would have to know how to judge employees, and how to treat them well, etc.
still didnt answer my question..
How do you do all of this with other professions?
If I was a carpenter, I still wouldnt have to pay for experience. I get paid for experience.
With doctors, they dont get paid for experience, they have to pay for experience. its much more expensive. See the difference?
And with engineers, scientist, it doesnt seem to matter what they pay for, they still wont have enough money to go independent.
Do you know otherwise?
Last edited by tariqblaze; 10-09-2013 at 02:40 AM..
I would say "professional" careers are often suited to independence (although often not at first, but after experience is gained, for example, a CPA needs to have a few thousand hours of experience before getting licensed) - doctor, attorney, accountant, architect (and other building professions).
Pay with funding, grants, lotto money. Dont know.
Point im making is, the difference between professional careers independence and vocational/blue/etc (whatever you want to call it) careers is that experience doesnt have to be purchased.
If you want to be an independent doctor, you would still need to pay for like 10 years of schooling before that happens, let alone the independent process.
With carpentry, for instance, you only need maybe 2 years experience, plus give or take an extra 2 or 4 years of experience. 6 years total, you are independent. This is all paid for mostly if you get an apprenticeship with a master. Therefore all experience may cost 0$ and even a paycheck.
With the professional jobs, this is not a reality. Instead you are paying 10,000$ or more a year for each 10 years just to finish and still have to pay more for startup business costs. We are talking maybe even close to a 150 k just to go independent.
College doesnt make it easy to go independent. It makes it expensive. If not expensive than impossible for other careers. Maybe with a CPA. But what about a engineer? Or a chemist? If I wanted to be independent as a scientist, I couldnt just get a bachelors degree than go get some experience. It doesnt seem to be set up to go that route.
still didnt answer my question..
How do you do all of this with other professions?
If I was a carpenter, I still wouldnt have to pay for experience. I get paid for experience.
With doctors, they dont get paid for experience, they have to pay for experience. its much more expensive. See the difference?
And with engineers, scientist, it doesnt seem to matter what they pay for, they still wont have enough money to go independent.
Do you know otherwise?
As an MD, you do get paid as you gain experience. Residency and fellowship are paid. Depending on the specialty and the program, you can make six figures as a fellow, although the typical stipend is much lower.
Pay with funding, grants, lotto money. Dont know.
Point im making is, the difference between professional careers independence and vocational/blue/etc (whatever you want to call it) careers is that experience doesnt have to be purchased.
If you want to be an independent doctor, you would still need to pay for like 10 years of schooling before that happens, let alone the independent process.
With carpentry, for instance, you only need maybe 2 years experience, plus give or take an extra 2 or 4 years of experience. 6 years total, you are independent. This is all paid for mostly if you get an apprenticeship with a master. Therefore all experience may cost 0$ and even a paycheck.
With the professional jobs, this is not a reality. Instead you are paying 10,000$ or more a year for each 10 years just to finish and still have to pay more for startup business costs. We are talking maybe even close to a 150 k just to go independent.
College doesnt make it easy to go independent. It makes it expensive. If not expensive than impossible for other careers. Maybe with a CPA. But what about a engineer? Or a chemist? If I wanted to be independent as a scientist, I couldnt just get a bachelors degree than go get some experience. It doesnt seem to be set up to go that route.
Well then, since you have it all figured out, go be a carpenter who only takes on projects he feels like working on and stop trolling.
As an MD, you do get paid as you gain experience. Residency and fellowship are paid. Depending on the specialty and the program, you can make six figures as a fellow, although the typical stipend is much lower.
But the cost to be a doctor is much more than it is to be something that only requires a certification.
Much different.
It looks like this.
Certification
Associates
-------------
Bachelors
---------------
Masters
Doctors
Anything above a bachelors is very expensive
Anything below a bachelors in below is somewhat doable.
DO you know of any career with a bachelors or below that promotes independence.
We already said mostly all certifications and some associates degrees do this. How about bachelors degrees?
It seems as though bachelors degrees are the middle ground for all but not clear enough.
Indepdedence is great but for those that want to be independent with a bachelors degree, what do they do?
What about for science degrees? Chemistry, Biology etc. How can one get a bachelors for say in a research science field and become an independent research scientist? It seems all scientist do is research what the big corporations tell them to or the government programs and if they dont, then say goodbye to funding and grants.
I'm not sure I get what you're trying to say. You CANNOT run your own lab/team with just a bachelors. You will need a PhD. However, if you are fortunate enough to work with a generous PI, you may have more responsibilities as a research specialist/associate and be included in the development of protocols and manuscripts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tariqblaze
How often do you see independent research scientist researching theories they have proposed on their own or theories they feel is actually useful to society?
All the time. There is a difference in working in academia/nonprofit as opposed to industry. In academia/nonprofit you apply for grants to fund your research. In industry, it is a lot more rigid and you do not have as much say in studies.
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