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In France there are three levels (these are the same for most countries in Europe I think):
- Licence (3 years)
- Master (2 years)
- Doctorat (about 3 years)
In the U.S. I believe there are three levels:
- Undergraduate (4 years) after which we earn a "Bachelor's degree"
- Graduate (about 2-3 years I think) after which we earn a "Master's degree" maybe (I'm not sure at all)
- Doctorate (or maybe this is included in the "Graduate" part? I don't know)
I'm a French student and I'm planning to arrive in the U.S. for the beginning of the Graduate part (I'm going to study astronomy).
I know I should begin the application process at least 7-8 months before leaving France, but should I be leaving right after I finish the 3rd year of Licence or right after I finish the 1st year of Master?
In other words... Which one is generally considered to be equivalent to a U.S. Bachelor's degree: the 3rd year of Licence or the 1st year of Master?
Does it depends on the quality of the universities?
Maybe second-rate universities accept students who have the 3rd year of Licence to their Graduate programs ; while first-rate universities only accept students who have the 1st year of Master to their Graduate programs?
When you state that you are enrolling in an American graduate program, do you mean a program for obtaining your master's (of science) or an American Ph.D? A European doctorate (3 years) is considered "less in status" than an American doctorate-PhD. American universities will evaluate your transcripts based on "credits' or credit hours. An American bachelor's degree is approximately 120-130 credit hours. If you have less than that amount, you wouldn't have the equivalent of a U.S. Bachelor's degree. Whether the American university is first, second, or third rate, is irrelevant.
The Frenche license degree is probably closest to a bachelor's degree, but I'm not sure if it would be considered completely equivalent unless the same number of credits are required for one. That probably depends on the requirements of the school to which you're applying.
The American university system is fairly straightforward.
Community colleges offer associate degrees, which don't really mean anything. Sometimes people go to community colleges with the intention of moving on to a traditional college or university. Community colleges tend to offer either trade skill classes or general education classes, with a few exceptions. There isn't as much specialization at this level as there is at higher levels.
A four-year school that confers a bachelor's degree is called either a college or a university. Often, "university" just means someplace that is subdivided into colleges, e.g., the college of engineering and the college of natural science. Universities are usually, but not always, larger, and they almost always have graduate programs. The degree you get at this level is called either a bachelor of arts degree or a bachelor of science degree. While bachelor of science degrees tend to be awarded to students with a more technical track in school, the name is entirely arbitrary, and some elite schools use the former for all of their non-engineering programs.
A bachelor's degree comes with one or more major areas of study. I always encourage people to get at least two majors, since this is the last chance most people will have to take classes outside of a specialty area. Majors usually require an average of a couple of classes each semester to focus on a particular area of study. For instance, a math major probably takes one or two math classes each semester for eight semesters. Graduation requirements are broader, though, and everyone has to take courses outside of her major, too, though the amount depends on the program. Someone with a bachelor's degree is supposed to be fairly well-rounded, with some exposure to all of the major corners of academia. My school, for example, divided the curriculum up into the humanities, the social sciences, and the natural sciences (with math and engineering falling into the third group). All students had to take a certain number of qualified courses from each of the three groups.
Admissions at the bachelor's degree level are usually taken care of at a university-wide level. That is, you are admitted into the university as a whole, not just to a particular program. However, there are exceptions for certain specialized fields. At my school, architecture students and music students applied separately, since they had to submit portfolios or attend auditions.
People with bachelor's degrees can apply for either master's or doctoral programs or for certain professional degrees. Master's programs might be split into academic and professional programs, with professional master's programs usually being terminal degrees with no expected further progress. You might get a master of arts or a master of science degree this way. Professional degrees include the master of business administration degree (MBA), a juris doctorate (not a real doctorate -- this used to be called a bachelor's in law), or a few other things. These degrees are all very specialized, and admission of students is decided by individual departments, not the university as a whole. However, this isn't the level at which you pick a specialized subdiscipline within your field, usually. At the master's level, you're supposed to gain a basic mastery of your field.
A more academic master's degree usually requires a thesis, and students in these programs usually plan to go on for a doctorate. People who do the master's and doctorate at the same school usually don't have to apply again to get into the doctoral program, but they do have to pass a qualifying exam. Those who pass (the failure rates are high enough to stop many of the best students from around the world) then spend a few years doing research, writing a dissertation, and defending it in front of a committee. If all goes well, the students who make it to the end get the title "Doctor" and move on to the next stage in life. These students have a very deep knowledge of a specialty area. In fact, to get the degree, they have to provide their own contribution to the field! You can't get a doctorate from learning what other people have already known; you have to learn something new that hasn't been discovered before.
Note that master's and doctoral programs are often referred to together as "graduate school." Professional programs usually aren't; your physician will say she went to medical school, not graduate school. Your attorney will say she went to law school, not graduate school. An MBA might refer to graduate school rather than business school, though. I've heard both. Degrees from all of these sorts of programs are often called "advanced degrees," but when someone claims to have an advanced degree but doesn't specify what kind, you can bet it's a master's degree or an MBA. No one with a JD, PhD, or MD will say, "I have an advanced degree." Most people with PhDs don't even bother mentioning their master's degrees.
All in all, the bachelor's degree usually takes at least four years. It takes most people more than that these days, and some programs are designed to last five.
A master's degree can be as short as two years. Some professional master's degrees, such as those obtained by high school teachers, are even shorter, but they aren't taken as seriously as the more demanding programs. Other times, a master's degree is the consolation prize for someone who fails a doctoral program. Professional degrees take different amounts of time. I'm actually not sure how long a medical degree takes. Law degrees are three years. An MBA's duration depends on the program, and not eveyone going for one of those is a full-time student.
The most time-consuming degree is the doctorate, since it depends on getting an adequate research result, not just on completing coursework. Scientific fields can be as short as three years (that's three years after getting a master's degree and passing your qualifying exams, so five total years in graduate school). Social sciences might take longer. A doctorate in the humanities can take over a decade to finish. People in those programs are usually just getting started around the time people in math and science are finishing.
That's a lot of information, but there isn't a lot of ambiguity, since it's all part of the same system.
As for making sure your license degree meets the requirement for getting into grad school, well, check with the admissions people to make sure, but it probably does.
I'm not sure your 3 year degree will get you into a US Grad school. I've heard of some instances were it doesn't. But you can use the below link and see where you stand in all this. WES is one of the organizations that whitewash your credits for US universities. I think there is another but I forgot the name.
In France there are three levels (these are the same for most countries in Europe I think):
- Licence (3 years)
- Master (2 years)
- Doctorat (about 3 years)
In the U.S. I believe there are three levels:
- Undergraduate (4 years) after which we earn a "Bachelor's degree"
- Graduate (about 2-3 years I think) after which we earn a "Master's degree" maybe (I'm not sure at all)
- Doctorate (or maybe this is included in the "Graduate" part? I don't know)
I'm a French student and I'm planning to arrive in the U.S. for the beginning of the Graduate part (I'm going to study astronomy).
I know I should begin the application process at least 7-8 months before leaving France, but should I be leaving right after I finish the 3rd year of Licence or right after I finish the 1st year of Master?
In other words... Which one is generally considered to be equivalent to a U.S. Bachelor's degree: the 3rd year of Licence or the 1st year of Master?
Does it depends on the quality of the universities?
Maybe second-rate universities accept students who have the 3rd year of Licence to their Graduate programs ; while first-rate universities only accept students who have the 1st year of Master to their Graduate programs?
Thanks in advance for your answers.
Universities have different admissions criteria.
You will also need to provide scores for some admission exams that are administered internationally. The GMAT or GRE are often required exams for admission to a graduate program. The LSAT is required to get into a law school, the MCAT is required to get into medical school, etc. You'll also need to do the TOEFL exam to establish how well you understand English.
Each university in the U.S. that interests you can provide their requirements to you, you just need to contact their admissions office.
The French baccalaureate has traditionally been the equivalent of the first TWO years of an American University -- le bac essentially covers so-called general/core education requirements covered in American colleges/universities during both the freshman and sophomore years. With the typical U.S. bachelor's degree (BA or BS), an American student would get two years' credit from a French university (the old DEUG), but not a full licence: you'd have two more years to go for that. A French licence is still generally worth more than a US bachelor's degree. However, for foreign students in most US colleges and universities, it's very difficult to transfer course credits and even complete degrees from universities outside the U.S. and Canada. It depends on the school and their admissions office, and all credits should be finalized with the US school before any foreign student begins studies in the US.
If you plan on entering a PhD program, pay attention to field-wise realities. I don't know how common getting research experience is for French undergraduates in the humanities but what I do know is that, in basic sciences, US colleges give out research experience to undergrads like candy in comparison to France (and probably in comparison to a wide range of European systems). In which case it might probably be best for the OP to check with the prospective schools.
As previously said, pay attention to the field and the degree you intend to pursue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlAndSparrow
A bachelor's degree comes with one or more major areas of study. I always encourage people to get at least two majors, since this is the last chance most people will have to take classes outside of a specialty area. Majors usually require an average of a couple of classes each semester to focus on a particular area of study. For instance, a math major probably takes one or two math classes each semester for eight semesters. Graduation requirements are broader, though, and everyone has to take courses outside of her major, too, though the amount depends on the program. Someone with a bachelor's degree is supposed to be fairly well-rounded, with some exposure to all of the major corners of academia. My school, for example, divided the curriculum up into the humanities, the social sciences, and the natural sciences (with math and engineering falling into the third group). All students had to take a certain number of qualified courses from each of the three groups.
With few exceptions. Amherst, Brown students (and more generally schools without distribution requirements) can theoretically be as one-dimensional as they want, although I am not so sure how does that play out in practice.
Quote:
Note that master's and doctoral programs are often referred to together as "graduate school." Professional programs usually aren't; your physician will say she went to medical school, not graduate school. Your attorney will say she went to law school, not graduate school. An MBA might refer to graduate school rather than business school, though. I've heard both. Degrees from all of these sorts of programs are often called "advanced degrees," but when someone claims to have an advanced degree but doesn't specify what kind, you can bet it's a master's degree or an MBA. No one with a JD, PhD, or MD will say, "I have an advanced degree." Most people with PhDs don't even bother mentioning their master's degrees.
If only because some people with PhDs entered their PhD programs directly from bachelors. I understand that it happens more often in STEM disciplines to go on directly to earn a PhD from bachelors than in humanities/social sciences.
But I agree, US higher education is much more straightforward than France.
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