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But a lot are still doing the same things they were doing decades ago. Not to mention a lot of frat and sorority life revolves around drinking and sex (along with college life in general). The difference is that an independent college student would not be forced to sleep with ten frat brothers just because she is a little sister. The difference is that while an independent college student might choose to party, they are not forced to party, or to show up to sorority/frat functions, usually involving alcohol, which can (and do) take time away from school work.
. . . the pressure to fit in, and seek approval from the frat and especially the sorority, will lead a young person to do things they don't really want to do. People have been killed in sorority/fraternity hazings. People have been raped, made to do drugs, made to drink alcohol until they were on the verge of alcohol poisoning. All in the name of making new friends?
We pay dues, in a sense, to any group to which we choose to belong.
I take issue with some of your argument here -- not that some of these things don't happen. Unfortunately, they do. I just think it's a bit misleading to argue this is 'the norm.' It isn't, any more than the father who is in the news for locking his daughter up in a cellar, and carrying on an incestuous relationship with her for years, is the norm for dads, either.
Some of the worst instances get the greatest profile.
Greeks GPA lower than average - News (http://media.www.cm-life.com/media/storage/paper906/news/2005/03/16/News/Greeks.Gpa.Lower.Than.Average-2497184.shtml - broken link) Grade point averages of Greek organizations at CMU remained just lower than the overall campus classroom performance.
I think the greek system is outdated. A lot of frats/sororities are now implementing more diversity, more emphasis on philanthropy, and less reliance on hazing, rituals, sex, etc. But a lot are still doing the same things they were doing decades ago. Not to mention a lot of frat and sorority life revolves around drinking and sex (along with college life in general). The difference is that an independent college student would not be forced to sleep with ten frat brothers just because she is a little sister. The difference is that while an independent college student might choose to party, they are not forced to party, or to show up to sorority/frat functions, usually involving alcohol, which can (and do) take time away from school work.
I've heard it can be a great way to have a built-in social network right when you arrive at school, but sometimes at too great a cost. There are other groups on campus that you can join to meet people, it's not like anyone who doesn't go greek is going to be a lonely outcast with no friends. Oftentimes the pressure to fit in, and seek approval from the frat and especially the sorority, will lead a young person to do things they don't really want to do. People have been killed in sorority/fraternity hazings. People have been raped, made to do drugs, made to drink alcohol until they were on the verge of alcohol poisoning. All in the name of making new friends?
Students who need help with their failing grades can often tap into sources held by the fraternity/sorority which include essays, reports, tests, etc. And essentially this is part of why you pay to be Greek. Sounds like a good deal, except it doesn't help you learn anything new, and your parents are subsidizing your partying while you cheat your way into a higher GPA. You can google it if you are skeptical, it's part of the benefit of being Greek on some campuses.
The way I see it, you can still party and make friends at college, without PAYING for it in dues, or forced to perform activities and functions for a group you are PAYING to be a member of. Guess I just don't understand
I think your way of thinking is very outdated. I think its conclusory to look at a greeks systems gpa and say, "****ty grades because they are greek" or "great grades because they cheat." That is all hogsquash and you should know better. But you dont.
The greek system is NOT A CAUSE for low grades. Rather it is the type of people that join them and the university in question that you should look at. People that tend to join them are people that like to have more of an active life within the university. That does take its toll on grades.
But that also depends on the university in question. The higher the schools ranking in academic performance, guess what, the higher the greek systems GPA is. No brain surgeon is needed to figure that out.
And what is it with the sex comments and the greek systemt that you seem to be tied to? I guess you still have images of 18 year old frat boys with their pants rolled down to their ankles being paddled by a fraternity brother. Or a sorority pledge that needs to be gangbanged by a fraternity in order to get in. I suggest you leave you sick perversions at home and look beyond your stereotypes. These things do not happen.
Sure there are other organizations a student can join while in college and that is encouraged. But people that join a fraternity/sorotity tend to want to not only be a part of a campus organization, but also tap into the history and traditions of the campus. There is no better way to do that than to join a fraternity/sorority. The traditions of many of these go beyond that of the campus, and are well integrated within the campus' traditions and history. And in many campuses its either, go greek or go home. Dont like it, go to another university.
The social life at my mid western (Ohio) high school was dominated by fraternities and sororities.....they had an iron grip on the school....and no one saw anything wrong with that. They were racially and religiously and economically exclusive and engaged in open hazing. This was back some years ago. The faculty and administration supported them.
I went to college in Alabama for my first year of college. One of the main reasons I transferred back to NYC for my last 3 years was Fraternities. Don't get me wrong I was expecting a culture shock moving to Alabama, but I never knew fraternities/sororities held so much weight out there. The president urged the incoming freshman to join during orientation, you would hear light chatter (people aren't allowed to say what they want to pledge) all the time everywhere on campus, you couldn't go in the area where their frat stones were, they were feared (this one amazed me cause I really saw most of them as the "school boy type"), and when someone crossed over there were literally people in tears. All of this aside from spending over a thousand dollars to join. Growing up in the hood and avoiding gangs I thought this type of peer pressure was finally behind me, but it didn't take me long to figure out in this college you wouldn't exist past freshman year (Most frats don't allow you to pledge freshman year so they kinda stick together) if you didn't pledge. I knew I was never going to pledge. I was from NYC. Everyone has there own swag and their own aura and I couldn't accept being looked at as a nobody down the road just for being me. I honestly don't have anything against frats. I am cool with plenty of people in frats it's just not my thing, besides that wasn't the only reason I moved back I had other issues. Anyway the story was just a backdrop for the post. I just wanted to know what are others opinions/experiences with fraternies/sororities?
I dont see where the peer pressure is, and why you cant avoid it. Its very simple.
Dont attend greek functions during rush week, and dont hang out with a fraternity all the time as if you were in that fraternity. Im getting a headache at the thought of how difficult that is.
Yes there are campuses where the greek system is large and deep, but usually if do as I have mentioned, you wont get bothered. Sure you may get a flyer to join, or a somebody may approach you once. But they generally have better things to do during the semester than to go "peer pressure" you all day long. Get on with your life.
I dont know what is with alot of people ****ting on the greek system. Listen, they have been a part of college campuses and universities for more than a century. They will always be around. People join them because they want to be a part of the university in a deeper way that no other organization can compare. They want to be part of something bigger that extends way beyond their 4 years in college. Whats the big deal with that?
I joined a fraternity during undergrad and it was great. Made some great friends, most of which I still keep in touch with, visit, and get together with in Vegas. Many of them living on the other side of the country. Its only been three years since Ive graduated, but am certain that I'll go down as an old man and still be great friends with these guys.
Plus it has also helped out with my career. This summer I'll be working for one of the top law firms in L.A. as a lawclerk. I'm not the smartest guy at my law school, in fact I'm just outside the 25% mark, and I was able to beat out many students that are on law review not to mention people from bigger named schools. All because one of the recruits is an alumni from my same fraternity.
Plus it has also helped out with my career. This summer I'll be working for one of the top law firms in L.A. as a lawclerk. I'm not the smartest guy at my law school, in fact I'm just outside the 25% mark, and I was able to beat out many students that are on law review not to mention people from bigger named schools. All because one of the recruits is an alumni from my same fraternity.
To the Young Generation with whom we entrust our future and who are about to embark on life's journey, remember, regardless of what path you have chosen to realize your dreams of high ideals and new ideas, never forget the ancient truth: "Who you know is more important that what you know".
I dont see where the peer pressure is, and why you cant avoid it. Its very simple.
Dont attend greek functions during rush week, and dont hang out with a fraternity all the time as if you were in that fraternity. Im getting a headache at the thought of how difficult that is.
Yes there are campuses where the greek system is large and deep, but usually if do as I have mentioned, you wont get bothered. Sure you may get a flyer to join, or a somebody may approach you once. But they generally have better things to do during the semester than to go "peer pressure" you all day long. Get on with your life.
I dont know what is with alot of people ****ting on the greek system. Listen, they have been a part of college campuses and universities for more than a century. They will always be around. People join them because they want to be a part of the university in a deeper way that no other organization can compare. They want to be part of something bigger that extends way beyond their 4 years in college. Whats the big deal with that?
I joined a fraternity during undergrad and it was great. Made some great friends, most of which I still keep in touch with, visit, and get together with in Vegas. Many of them living on the other side of the country. Its only been three years since Ive graduated, but am certain that I'll go down as an old man and still be great friends with these guys.
Plus it has also helped out with my career. This summer I'll be working for one of the top law firms in L.A. as a lawclerk. I'm not the smartest guy at my law school, in fact I'm just outside the 25% mark, and I was able to beat out many students that are on law review not to mention people from bigger named schools. All because one of the recruits is an alumni from my same fraternity.
For someone in law school you seemed to have a bit of trouble understanding my post. I was not bashing fraternities. It was not and will never be for me, but I was simply giving a backdrop for my post rather than simply stating "How do you feel about frats". Most questions come from somewhere and that is where mine came from. As for the peer pressure thing, you seem to have an image of peer pressure simply being an individual walking up to you and trying to coax you into something. If you are in an environment where your intelligence, physical attributes, and overall character will not be noticed unless you join a frat or sorority that is peer pressure to join. I saw my grades, safety (beef with one frat guy and you have beef with the whole frat. You know like gangs), and sex life (sorority girls usually stuck with sorority guys and those non affiliated envied frat guys as well) being affected in the future had I decided to stay. I understand you feel some sort of obligation to represent the greek system, but you should choose another post to attack because I never said anything negative about frats. Sorry my post did not come off as if I was worshipping frats, unfortunately I don't idolize them.
For someone in law school you seemed to have a bit of trouble understanding my post. I was not bashing fraternities. It was not and will never be for me, but I was simply giving a backdrop for my post rather than simply stating "How do you feel about frats". Most questions come from somewhere and that is where mine came from. As for the peer pressure thing, you seem to have an image of peer pressure simply being an individual walking up to you and trying to coax you into something. If you are in an environment where your intelligence, physical attributes, and overall character will not be noticed unless you join a frat or sorority that is peer pressure to join. I saw my grades, safety (beef with one frat guy and you have beef with the whole frat. You know like gangs), and sex life (sorority girls usually stuck with sorority guys and those non affiliated envied frat guys as well) being affected in the future had I decided to stay.
When I said, "what is with all the ****ting on the greek system," I didnt mean you. Sorry if you took it that way. I was actually referencing the few replies that have made ****ty references about it.
But it sounds like you went to a small school. Say 10,000 or less. I still find the peer pressure aspect hard to imagine. I few friends that went to small universities with large greek systems. None of them have made mention about how pressuring the greek system is. Their take on it: you may have to try to stay away from it, but its not impossible.
The worst Ive seen it was this small private university in Texas where the greek population was somewhere around 40%. Although it had its presence it was not pressuring. In fact, it may even be difficult to get into any of the fraternities since their requirements are like that of a job. I saw many students going about their own business simply ignoring that they exist and it didnt seem like they were burdened.
But it sounds like you had problems with staying away from the greek presence. Im not sure how long you stayed in that school in Alabama, but Im sure with time you would have found your own tranquility there.
As for dating girls, you dont have to date sorority girls. I never did, and I was in a fraternity. There are plenty of other cute girls on a campus. Although you may think that most of them have hooked up with fraternity guys, there are plenty around that havent. Have you ever tried dating outside of the school?
Lastly, what is with the reference of fraternities and gangs? I can understand where you draw a similarity, but you could not be farther from the truth. You have to remember, they are students. Not thugs. You get into a fight with one, and they are not going to gang up and beat you down. Not only would each be personally liable, and face being placed in jail, but their chapters would be taken down. Most of them know this, and they're not studid enough to risk their lives to be grouping on someone. I have never heard of an instance where a fraternity gangs up on one kid like a gang. Maybe towards each other, which happens because of their rivalries, but its nothing that should make anyone fearful of their safety.
Coming from a rough area of L.A., the last thing I wanted when I went to college was to join any group that resembled a gang. So when I looked into the greeks I was highly skeptical and cautious. But I saw that they were a bunch of students like me who were scholars, leaders, and athletes, and nothing like a gang, I was in.
To the Young Generation with whom we entrust our future and who are about to embark on life's journey, remember, regardless of what path you have chosen to realize your dreams of high ideals and new ideas, never forget the ancient truth: "Who you know is more important that what you know".
So true. Funny thing is, I never realized this until I was in law school. And when I realized it, I also realized that I had already made connections in the real world. Throughout college I was under the assumption that grades is what gets you places. Grades can only get you so far. After that, your name is the only thing that counts with people. If people know you, and they like you, you can get farther than someone with better grades and knows no-one.
I purposely chose a school that does not support the Greek system. We have a few that are off campus, but it's the kids who probably should never have come to my school who joined. My college has a distinct social reputation which is not all that true- but what is true is that partying is not part of campus culture near as much as many other schools and that's stifling to some students so they go to the frats.
I've had very bad experiences with the Greek system at UGA, Georgia Tech, Ole Miss, and Alabama. I dated an EE major at Tech who was in a well respected frat. He brought me to some event and I've NEVER felt more degraded in my life- those guys were so rude! I think it was a pack mentality- I highly doubt they would have had the courage to say what they said if they were alone. Karma bit that now ex in the butt and he ended up flunking out due to his party habits. In high school, girls chose the college they went to based on the sorority they wanted to go to and spent their entire junior and senior years schmoozing with the girls and making connections to get in. It was a little ridiculous.
I'm sure not all sororities and frats are bad places.. but the Southern big school culture really makes them look negative to me. And yes- there IS still pretty horrible hazing. My best friend at UGA refused to go through the sorority hazing process and was the only girl not to get rushed. That's left a pretty bad taste in my mouth as well.
I just don't get the point. I make my connections in classes, activist groups, the student union leadership, and other extracurriculars. It makes much more sense for me to network and build relationships with people who share similar interests and career goals over a group who are only connected by name. Sure there are some "themed" sororities, but still, it just doesn't compute to me. I don't drink, I don't party, and I have better things to do with my money than dues and dresses for events. Granted, my school is 3500 people and I think that's a little big (10,000 to me is huge!) so it's much easier to form a tight bond with lots of people. There are few people on campus that I don't recognize really.
Greek life can be great for some people, but anyone with any semblance of social skills at all should have no problem making solid connections through regular activities. The whole "but it's good for your career!" might be true, but it's not any better than being active in general on campus.
It's ok that not everyone goes Greek. That is impossible. It is natural to not support what one doesn't hold dear; sometimes just from a lack of understanding. However, the Greek experience, while unique, is similar enough to other experiences be it band, debate clubs, athletics, etc. (you get the drift). So, some of the basics are the same (socialization, etc.). My brother was not in a fraternity but he found his way. I happened to go Greek and am happy with my path. It's all good. Not being homogeneous is what allows each experience to be the best it can be. (to loosely quote Robert Frost)
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