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That may be correct, but is also irrelevant to the vast majority of students because they aren't going to attend one of that handful of top schools. A few thousand lucky few who get to attend one of those schools with plenty of financial aid is barely a blip on the cost impact to the million others who don't attend Harvard and also don't get much financial aid because their parents make to much to be poor and don't make enough to be rich.
That’s very true. While I agree with universities prioritizing financial aid to the most needy students, there are many students who don’t qualify for financial aid, but whose families still have a tough decision to make when faced with the prospect of ~$250k in undergraduate tuition.
Part of the reason I moved to Georgia was the HOPE/Zell Miller scholarships. Two great schools - UGA and Georgia Tech are on the list and made much more affordable if your child is at least a B student. Tuition is either 90% or 100% covered at public universities. A smart plan by the state to keep high achieving students local.
I got my MBA at Indiana University and it was great value as well.
That list, while accurate, is misleading in that some of the schools with the highest tuition are the most affordable. Almost no one pays the sticker prices at these private schools.
Precisely.
I'm in southern Minnesota. Nearby Carleton College has an endowment of nearly $900 million, and just over 2000 students. nearby Winona State has an endowment of less than $33 million, and nearly 9000 students.
In other words, Carleton's endowment/student ratio is more than 110x that of Winona State.
Absolutely ridiculous that anybody would pay those sums with what college education has become.
I imagine it's all about status. Indeed, those who can afford to pay full sticker price don't need to attend those schools as they'd be fine no matter where they go to school. But I'm glad that they can afford to do so as it helped to subsidize my education
Harvard says 55% of students receive need based aid.
Yep. A whole lot of students' families at these schools are paying the full sticker price. But a whole lot also are paying little to nothing. The differences aren't as lopsided as some might think.
I'm in southern Minnesota. Nearby Carleton College has an endowment of nearly $900 million, and just over 2000 students. nearby Winona State has an endowment of less than $33 million, and nearly 9000 students.
In other words, Carleton's endowment/student ratio is more than 110x that of Winona State.
Keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of endowment funds will generally be restricted, meaning that the schools are only free to spend the endowment returns on what their benefactors earmarked them for. As an extreme example, all $900 million of Carleton College's endowment could be earmarked towards grounds upkeep and the school couldn't spend returns on anything else. Of course, even if the $900 million endowment was completely unrestricted in the case of Carleton College, the school would still be trying to make those funds grow more via investment returns and the numbers available to support a generous financial aid policy--as an example--likely wouldn't be all that much.
Here is a breakdown of the percentage of Ivy League (minus Columbia University, which apparently doesn't release such information) undergraduates per school who receive financial aid:
Quote:
Brown University: Of 1,613 freshmen, 43 percent received need-based grants. Their average award was $42,109. Thirty-four percent of Brown graduates took out loans to pay for college, and their average debt totaled $22,197.
Cornell University: Of 3,180 freshmen, 44 percent received need-based grants. Their average award was $39,787. Forty-three percent of Cornell graduates took out loans to pay for college, and their average debt totaled $24,394.
Dartmouth College: Of 1,112 freshmen, 48 percent received need-based grants. Their average award was $46,917. Forty-three percent of Dartmouth graduates took out loans to pay for college, and their average debt totaled $19,135.
Harvard University: Of 1,660 freshmen, 56 percent received need-based grants. Their average award was $47,053. Twenty-six percent of Harvard graduates took out loans to pay for college, and their average debt totaled $15,117.
Princeton University: Of 1,338 freshmen, 62 percent received need-based grants. Their average award was $46,208. Sixteen percent of Princeton graduates took out loans to pay for college, and their average debt totaled $8,577.
University of Pennsylvania: Of 2,350 freshmen in fall 2015, 45 percent received need-based grants. Their average award was $42,150. Twenty-eight percent of graduates took out loans to pay for college, and their average debt totaled $26,157
Yale University: Of 1,364 freshmen, 51 percent received need-based grants. Their average award was $50,359. Seventeen percent of graduates took out loans to pay for college, and their average debt totaled $15,521.
All of this is to say that significant percentages of students at these schools (and I highly doubt that the Ivy Leagues are unique in this area . . . if anything, the percentage of students receiving aid is probably higher at the Ivy Leagues than most other private universities) are not receiving financial aid and are paying full sticker price (either having them/their parents cut full checks or taking out loans).
Keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of endowment funds will generally be restricted, meaning that the schools are only free to spend the endowment returns on what their benefactors earmarked them for. As an extreme example, all $900 million of Carleton College's endowment could be earmarked towards grounds upkeep and the school couldn't spend returns on anything else. Of course, even if the $900 million endowment was completely unrestricted in the case of Carleton College, the school would still be trying to make those funds grow more via investment returns and the numbers available to support a generous financial aid policy--as an example--likely wouldn't be all that much.
Right.
As an example that neither does nor ever would occur in the real world. Thus, a completely pointless 'example'.
In the specific case of Carleton, the endowment provided $35,000,000 in FY2018 alone. That's more than Winona State's entire endowment. The earnings off the endowment, combined with gifts to the college that do not get rolled into the endowment and are instead immediately diverted toward expenses, adds another $13 million, bringing to the total to covering 30% of the annual operating costs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
All of this is to say that significant percentages of students at these schools (and I highly doubt that the Ivy Leagues are unique in this area . . . if anything, the percentage of students receiving aid is probably higher at the Ivy Leagues than most other private universities) are not receiving financial aid and are paying full sticker price (either having them/their parents cut full checks or taking out loans).
In FY2018, the average Carl was graduating with $20,063 in debt. Higher than four of your Ivy League examples, lower than three. And that doesn't account for the fact that your FY2015 examples were certainly higher come 2018, the year of the Carleton numbers.
As an example that neither does nor ever would occur in the real world. Thus, a completely pointless 'example'.
In the specific case of Carleton, the endowment provided $35,000,000 in FY2018 alone. That's more than Winona State's entire endowment. The earnings off the endowment, combined with gifts to the college that do not get rolled into the endowment and are instead immediately diverted toward expenses, adds another $13 million, bringing to the total to covering 30% of the annual operating costs.
In FY2018, the average Carl was graduating with $20,063 in debt. Higher than four of your Ivy League examples, lower than three. And that doesn't account for the fact that your FY2015 examples were certainly higher come 2018, the year of the Carleton numbers.
What point? I primarily took issue with you co-signing TexasLawyer's post, which read:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasLawyer2000
That list, while accurate, is misleading in that some of the schools with the highest tuition are the most affordable. Almost no one pays the sticker prices at these private schools.
You responded, "Precisely" to this post. But the data do not bear this out. In fact, the data suggest that a pretty significant percentage of students at these schools having the highest tuition are paying full sticker price. Certainly not "almost no one."
Moving on, my example is not pointless, and was explicitly described as an "extreme example" by me as a way to get a point across. Nowhere did I claim that this is the norm/how things operate in the real world.
Absolutely ridiculous that anybody would pay those sums with what college education has become.
In the era of Covid, I would agree. Otherwise, I would not. Families easily able to afford those high tuitions are more than happy to pay the tab in order for their kids to get the quality education available at these schools.
A friend of my wife's has a kid at Dartmouth currently. He's taking two language classes online this quarter and the bill is $10K! They're not real happy about this.
My daughter went there, graduating in 2020. With the aid they offered, it was cheaper than any schools she was accepted at on the West coast. She received an excellent education, enabling her to get a job at Rockefeller University in NYC.
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