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Determining what the "right degree" is before you start school is not exactly straight forward.
I thought it was. I looked at all the salary stats and talked with professors and thought I made an informed decision. I was given the impression that with an MS I would have a leg up over those with a BS and, though I would not be earning wall street style 6 figure salaries I could earn 50-70k a solid middle class salary.
What I am finding out now is chemistry is a revolving door profession where people graduate work a few years in a lab earning no/few benefits and 30 to 40k and most eventually leave the field in disgust like I am considering and are replaced by the next batch from the U or get laid off in their mid 40's and never find decent work again.
Most of the figures are BS based on paying members of the ACS or a few fortunate highly-specialized or well-connected scientists who managed to land a good gig and as RM said does not include people who are un or under employed or who left the field. It is difficult for an undergrad to see through the spin.
What I don't understand is I hear about a lot of people with chem degrees who get jobs in other fields like banking. I'd like to persue this route but don't see how I can be competitive or even qualify for jobs when their are people with finance degrees that are more directly applicable.
So far My options are
1. Believe I am simply looking in the wrong places or not job hunting correctly and continue. I am not to sure about this.
2. Investment Banking or consultancy interested, but I have no idea how to get started
3. Pharm school 5 years negative income start earning money when I am 35.
At this point I don't care what I am doing as long as I can make enough money for a reasonable living. My standard of living right now is extremely low. I earn $20 and hour and save about 1/2 my take home pay because I have such little confidence in the future. I live at home and buy nothing but food and other essentials.
Last edited by MSchemist80; 04-13-2010 at 11:00 AM..
I thought it was. I looked at all the salary stats and talked with professors and thought I made an informed decision. I was given the impression that with an MS I would have a leg up over those with a BS and, though I would not be earning wall street style 6 figure salaries I could earn 50-70k a solid middle class salary.
Given the impression by who exactly? It does not seem like you consulted with the people that actually matter in this case, namely business folks.
Professors are very often poor sources of information on careers. Most of them have never worked a "real job" in their life and are largely disconnected from what goes on in the business world.
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Originally Posted by MSchemist80
Most of the figures are BS based on paying members of the ACS or a few fortunate highly-specialized or well-connected scientists who managed to land a good gig ...
What is your basis for saying its BS? You don't have an alternative data series to point to, you're just basing this on your personal experience. Now being a scientist I would figure you'd know why this is highly dubious.
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Originally Posted by MSchemist80
I'd like to persue this route but don't see how I can be competitive or even qualify for jobs when their are people with finance degrees that are more directly applicable.
And this is your general problem, you apparently don't know how to job hunt. All you're doing is looking at job ads and the nonsense set of requirements they are asking for and taking it as gospel. The requirements are at best wish lists, business don't always have the luxury of hiring someone that meets their entire wish list.
Are you even creating targeted cover letters?
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Originally Posted by MSchemist80
1. Believe I am simply looking in the wrong places or not job hunting correctly and continue. I am not to sure about this.
This as stated is insane, you should not just continue doing the same thing. You need to stop the whining and evaluate what you are doing and start doing research on job hunting. Whether or not the job market for chemists is bad or not, its pretty clear from your comments that you are not job hunting well.
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Originally Posted by MSchemist80
2. Investment Banking or consultancy interested, but I have no idea how to get started
Among other things this will require you to improve your job hunting abilities. May as well start with 1.)
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Originally Posted by MSchemist80
I live at home and buy nothing but food and other essentials.
By this I assume you mean your parents, is this why you "can't" relocate? Having troubles leaving the nest?
Anyhow, its pretty clear you are going to believe whatever fits your particular psychological need. I have no idea what is going on here (perhaps social problems), but you are not approaching this in a rational way. You are approaching it emotionally and whining about it like mommy is going to come in and make it alright.
What is your basis for saying its BS? You don't have an alternative data series to point to, you're just basing this on your personal experience. Now being a scientist I would figure you'd know why this is highly dubious.
As a scientist I don't need to have better data to declare it as bad. The data has tremendous bias and sampling error. If I were presenting it at a conference I would expect heavy criticism and it would be discredited.
The requirements are at best wish lists, business don't always have the luxury of hiring someone that meets their entire wish list.
Unfortunately they're not wish lists they're are absolute demands or they won't even consider you. I lost out on a position because they wanted someone who used a Water's HPLC instead of Agilent. I can't get into pharma because they won't even take me as a contractor without pharma experience.
I've spent hours researching job hunting. I know networking is the way to go but I don't know many other scientists and no one else in my family even has a science degree and a lot of my colleges are in post-doc limbo, no help there.
I've sent my targeted resume for every position advertised and any place I could.
I got the Kennedy book of recruiters and emailed my resume to any applicable recruiters, several hundred in fact. They told me most don't work on basic science jobs because they pay so low it isn't worth their time. The only recruiters interested are the temp agencies who offer $15 an hour, I was lucky to find one that gave me $20. They don't get paid by the company so they are happy to work with me and skim half my paycheck.
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Originally Posted by user_id
By this I assume you mean your parents, is this why you "can't" relocate? Having troubles leaving the nest?
No I just don't think it is worth moving unless the pay is significantly higher than I am making now and of course the cost of living isn't. I wouldn't get far in CA making 40k or even 50k. Also, I might as well stay at home and pay rent to a relative and help her out and save money rather than pay a stranger and spend much more.
If it is contract, as most most are, that is just crazy risky. To be in the middle of a lease a thousand miles from home and have the contract end and not even be eligible for unemployment if it is 1099 would be an absolute disaster.
Last edited by MSchemist80; 04-14-2010 at 08:07 AM..
One of the issues is that "Chemist" covers a very wide range of fields - from Food (where you work) to Petroleum - and everything in between.
As such, there is a wide range of salaries in the various fields, and even more so - within the fields at various sized businesses.
Generally (historically) - Petroleum chemists earned the most. Pharma is usually second. Though my father worked as a research chemist for GM until the '90s when he retired - and he did very well, on par with Pharma at that time.
Then - once you're in an industry - lets pick Pharma -- the salaries are all over the map depending on if you're working for a tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 company. My alma mater was a tier 1 pharma company - they paid very competitively to get you in the door, but raises were nearly non-existant.
Then there's the question of (still within pharma) proprietary molecules, generics or contract labs?? In general - contract labs tend to pay the lowest salaries, which makes sense as they are bidding out to do work for other companies. Usually, the companies with proprietary molecules pay the best, but that is not necessarily so (see prior section on overall size of company and market position)..
So - yeah, I could totally see getting out of college with a BS (or a MS - doing a BS level of work) and getting into a company and only making $35K.
You're not that old - switch industries. If you're in it for money, food chemistry is not generally where's it at.
If you're done with the lab entirely - do some real research (not city data) and look at projected trends (bureau of labor statistics has some numbers on projected needs and salaries..) and pick something.
What about green energy - that's getting hotter and hotter, maybe you could apply chemistry to the green movement, I'm sure there's companies getting into that.
Another degree is no guarantee of additional earnings. So I'd think and do some careful research before I jumped into another program.
That said - pharmacy still seems like a fairly safe bet, and the program is not that long.
Good luck - sorry the degree isn't accomplishing what you want .. but it is possible to make a very decent living as a chemist. You weren't sold a bill of goods - you just ended up in a not particularly lucrative area.
As a scientist I don't need to have better data to declare it as bad. The data has tremendous bias and sampling error. If I were presenting it at a conference I would expect heavy criticism and it would be discredited.
You don't need better data to declare that the methodology in itself is bad, but you do need better data if you are going to also claim that the results are wrong. You see using a poor methodology in itself does not mean that the results are wrong, it only means that the results are not well supported.
All statistical data has a sampling error so that is hardly a valid criticism and I'm not sure what bias you think the BLS includes into their data. Do you believe that economist just take the BLS data as gospel without actually you know thinking about it? I don't see any problems with the BLS data, it just does not tell you everything you may want to know.
Unfortunately they're not wish lists they're are absolute demands or they won't even consider you.
Do you seriously believe that every company gets the exact employee they want every time? This is fantasy-land thinking, the reality is that employers have to make compromises all the time. Of course, they will hold out as long as they can for the ideal candidate.
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Originally Posted by MSchemist80
I know networking is the way to go but I don't know many other scientists and no one else in my....
Excuse. There are a number of ways you can meet scientists, for example someone suggest going to events.
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Originally Posted by MSchemist80
I've sent my targeted resume for every position advertised and any place I could.
Then it was not a targeted resume, the resume and cover letter should be targeted for the company you are applying to so there would be targeted resumes, not a "targeted resume".
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Originally Posted by MSchemist80
No I just don't think it is worth moving unless the pay is significantly higher than I am making now and of course the cost of living isn't. I wouldn't get far in CA making 40k or even 50k.
The point of moving is simple, there may be much better job opportunities in other areas. Why would the pay have to be significantly higher? How about a job that pays $5 more per hour, provides full benefits and offers good opportunities to learn new things?
Also, a single person can live just fine off $40~$50k/year in most parts of California.
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Originally Posted by MSchemist80
If it is contract, as most most are, that is just crazy risky.
Its pretty clear you want what does not exist. You do not want to expose yourself to any risk, yet you want a good paying job. You really need to come to grips with the fact that real world is not the sheltered world you grew up in and staying with mommy is just delaying reality.
I tend to oversimplify things, but here's my take: if the OP actually wanted a "stable, middle-class" job like he says, he would have one by now. Looking for jobs you're qualified for and want just isn't that damn hard. You send the hiring manager or whoever your resume and an e-mail explaining why you want the job and what you can offer.
The hard part is figuring out what jobs you actually want, or having the guts to find some other way to make a living. In my amateur-psychologist view, the OP is terrified of that part, so he's making the job search part out to be much, much harder than it actually is.
Prison guard... at least here in Cali! With overtime you can exceed $100k. Amazing huh?
Yea, except you have to be a prison guard... seeing a trend here? ::shudder::
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