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Experience didn't help me. BTW I was willing to relocate anywhere I even drove up to Raleigh for a weekend looking for a job in the triangle [I lived in the Atlanta area]. I just watched my life deteriorate further and further untill I finally put my foot down and decided to leave the field. I even convinced my cousin who was planning on majoring in biochemistry to switch to accounting. I think the only positive thing to come out of my science degree is that noone in my family is going to make the same mistake.
What?
Honestly, you spent a weekend driving to a minor hub and are basing the entirety of science employment on your half-as$ed efforts? Your cousin could probably be more successful in science then you were since you seem to have a complex and are willing to pretend your failures are the fault of the field rather then your own. In reality, the field is very successful and there are a whole lot of folks who have successful careers as chemists.
Yes but the experience I am getting is not helpful. The better jobs want formulations experience. I am doing instrumental analysis. They are looking for 5 years of specific formulations experience. It is a nasty catch-22.
Truth be told I would very much like to stay with chemistry. However, I am at a turning point a need to make a decision whether or not I can earn a decent living at it. Up untill I read this thread I was absolutely certain I needed to leave the field for a reasonable living and was beginning to make plans to go to business school. Now I am just confused.
I know a lot more folks with business degrees sitting around thinking they wasted their time then I do physical science or engineering degrees. Take that how you want to.
Except they are, often, not less intelligent, they are less fortunate and less well-connected. So the advice becomes stay the heck away from science unless you have someone who can grease the wheel for you.
I think it's hard to figure either way. All things being equal, then sure, connections make the difference, but if a person doesn't have the goods it won't fly. And, as noted, those 'goods' include a host of qualities- personality, a strong CV, etc.
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Originally Posted by RememberMee
I don't know where you get your info, but on the average tenured profs in first tier Universities make the same (at least) or more than your average industry research scientists.
It doesn't seem to be all that different starting out. "The median expected salary for a typical Assistant Professor in the United States is $62,654." Source. "The average salary for associate scientist jobs is $69,000. Average associate scientist salaries can vary greatly due to company, location, industry, experience and benefits." Source. As both progress in their careers earnings rise.
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If we to consider year long job searches (i.e. lost income) your average industry research scientists are subjected to from time to time and ever present threat of early disposal...
As stated in this thread there are many variables to consider. I typically harp on location due to my own experiences. I walked out of an academic lab into industry as a contractor for a wage in the $50s/yr. Within the year I found a perm position that matched currently available salary data. So, there wasn't lost income. Something is very wrong if a scientist is unemployed for a year. This economy would be good reason, but a person should at least be contracting.
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Besides tenure doesn't mean you cannot make extra cash in "consulting" etc.. Some research oriented Universities pay tenured professors something like 20k/year base pay. Everything on top of that a prof. earns by winning as many grant proposals as possible, on a good year it could mean some serious cash, there are no too many bad years though, university will find a way to get rid of your tenured arse if you'd stop bringing research money in.
I don't understand where you are getting this information from if you wouldn't mind linking it. To the best of my knowledge grant money is not meant for personal income. I may be totally wrong here, but I was under the impression those monies are supposed to go to the research. And research is expensive. In my past academic lab we always had our fingers crossed that the money would come for the grad students, supplies, etc. We really had to skimp on a lot of things and I was very close to my old boss. He was accountable for the funds and wasn't pocketing it (again, to the best of my knowledge).
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Originally Posted by RememberMee
Even though culturally we are conditioned to feel warm and fuzzy at the sound of the words "science" and "scientists", I want you to remind you that science is just another wage job people do to make a living. All the rules of thumb, skills, tricks, games, nastiness, etc. people use to climb the ladder in other lines of wage work are also applicable to science & scientists. But there are a few science specific "features":
Scientists are in business of getting money for their research.
Again, as User_Id pointed out, isn't this thread about industry? Those of us in industry are not trying to get money for research. We are allotted a budget every year to work with, which is based on how well the co is doing. In my case (dept of 20-25 people), it's some where in the vicinity of $700-800k IIRC for consumables, instruments, service contracts, etc. The figure, obviously, doesn't include salaries.
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All I can tell you, hyping skills and used car salesmanship would help you greatly to secure funding. That's why it's unwise to trust everything your average scientists saying about his/her research. They just playing the game.
Again, I'm having a hard time following. The topic, I thought, was addressing industry. And having the ability to secure funding, do well in the interview, etc, is only one small piece of the pie. Once in, you have to innovate, and that's the hair pulling work.
Spend the couple of bucks to register for your professional society and use their career sites and local meetings to get into a permanent position.
Like I said some people are good BSers.
The American Chemical Society is a joke. They are a mouth piece for the Chemical Businesses and Universities. They sure as heck don't offer any benefits to the average chemist.
Your dues will support their continued efforts to propagandize and put out sanitized PR bits about how the terrible shortage of scientists jeprodizes our society and how wonderful a chemistry career is, that unemployment is nearly nonexistant for chemists and that things are so great chemists almost never leave the field.
Besides, the last time I checked the only jobs on ACS's website were Kelly Scientic's crappy lab grunt jobs.
Heck you almost sound like one of their publicists.
The ACS still sends me letters asking me to pay $250 or whatever for a membership and I take great pleasure in ripping it up and tossing it in the garbage.
Honestly, you spent a weekend driving to a minor hub and are basing the entirety of science employment on your half-as$ed efforts? Your cousin could probably be more successful in science then you were since you seem to have a complex and are willing to pretend your failures are the fault of the field rather then your own. In reality, the field is very successful and there are a whole lot of folks who have successful careers as chemists.
No I filled out applications arround the country, talked with head hunters, applied for job after job. The trip up to Raleigh was one aspect.
Everywhere I looked the story was the same. We don't hire anyone for the really good jobs unless they have a list of 25 things with 5 years experience each as we don't believe in entry level jobs or training our workforce. The only jobs in reach are the one controlled by the stinking temp agencies Aerotek, Kelly, Manpower and they pay like crap, offer no benefits and don't provide much valuable experience or training.
Once in those jobs the companies offer minimal if any training or development as that could get them in trouble in their efforts to cheat on their taxes and declare the employees self employed independent contractors.
Like I said I am so glad I got out of that nightmare and spared my cousin from it. Noone in my family will go into science again and I will continue to do my very best to prevent more Americans from having their lives ruined competing with exploited third-worlders.
Like I said I am so glad I got out of that nightmare and spared my cousin from it. Noone in my family will go into science again and I will continue to do my very best to prevent more Americans from having their lives ruined competing with exploited third-worlders.
Third worlders, eh? geesh. I was just hanging out with a guy at my co with an h1b visa. He has three years with us, and then he has to go back to one of the sites in Europe. He's from Italy, tho. His salary is probably close to or at 6 figures.
If science is so great a career why are greater than half the people with science degrees going to careers having nothing to do with science? Something sure seems to be repelling them if after getting a degree and working so hard they can't leave the field fast enough.
If half of accountants or doctors went into an unrelated field after graduating we'd be apalled and asking the tough questions. In science we just sweep it under the rug and spread more happy face propaganda.
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