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I think it depends on where you live. When I was NJ, people with BAs were a dime a dozen. Competition for jobs was fierce. Where I live now, it's a rarity....
Absolutely correct. Where I live, at least up until 2008, sharp kids who stayed off drugs and pot could graduate from high school and start a job earning $50,000+. For some (like my son), it's hard to convince them that they need to go to college to earn the same income.
My parents, born in rural Kansas in 1913 and 1919, only had 8th grade educations. To attend high school they'd have had to "move away" to do it (no school buses then). Many kids then/there only attended school for four or six years, and only a few attended high school. With a high school education they could become school teachers, so comparing then to now, a bachelors degree is absolutely the new high school diploma.
Socstudent, I'm one person on this board who doesn't have a bachelors degree. I'm 64 and did rather well with a high school degree and only a little college, but I've always wished I'd have earned a degree. I became a newspaper editor/publisher at age 27 and "retired" at 35 with an interest in several profitable and award winning community newspapers. The one thing I always regretted was that I didn't finish college. I started back to school in my 40s but then had serious medical problems that stopped it. Finally, in my 50s I went back to our local community college and took a couple courses to earn an associates degree but figured at my age it was pointless to continue on (and move away) for a four-year degree.
To answer your question, yes, not having a degree has severely limited my job opportunities. I've done pretty much what I've wanted in life, but I've had to either work for smaller companies that can look past the degree requirements or work for myself. Corporate and government jobs (for the work I do) are pretty much pie in the sky.
And that's the problem I see for my son too. He makes a good income, has a big home on the golf course and likes his job, but he's also very restricted in what he can do. He's probably smarter than most of the managers over him, but because he doesn't have a degree, his job opportunities and promotions are limited. He's gone about as far as he can go without starting his own business.
He should consider studying part-time. Takes longer, but it's not as much work. I can understand his position though.. to me right now, since I don't really have a "calling" in life I find it nigh impossible to be motivated to do my work for college. I feel like I'm just working for a piece of paper that isn't even going to guarantee better job prospects. Just look at all the people REMOVING education from their resumes so they can get jobs.
Not many 18 year olds will have a bachelors since most 18 year olds aren't even out of high school. How about if you recalculate using 24-50?
Look at a job search website for jobs that pay average in your area and tell me how many of the want a minimum of a BA.
Starting at age 24 with the US Census data doesn't change the numbers by more than a few percentage points.
I'm not arguing that most higher paying jobs require a minimum of a Bachelor's degree...what the job requires does not change what the "pool" of available workers have in terms of educational attainment....
Considering the unemployment figures currently, what does it tell you that job search websites have unfilled jobs with a minimum educational requirement of a BA?
It tells me that there aren't enough qualified applicants that can reach that bar....
A decided minority of Americans possess a Bachelor's degree or higher...that is a statistic that hasn't changed in several generations...
someone said that to me the other day. i told him he's full of it.
look at the numbers. 28 percent of americans have a bachelors degree +
a bachelors will still get it done if you arnt wasting your time with a worthless degree like womens studies.
this is what im thinking down the road, next 20 years job wise.
think doing something global, say a global studies, a international relations type program where you pick up a language and pair it with some math or business is going to be valuable.
engineering, computer sciences will remain valuable.
dont waste time with crap like art studies, media studies.
people assume just because they get a bachelors they should have employers waiting for them, not true.
The trick is to find an intersection between something you like, and something that's needed. It's not an either/or, even though many feel it is.
It's a matter of knowing what one wants.
Take your example of Womens Studies. In of itself it's useless, true. It doesn't have to be though. Pair it up with statistics and do some work on gender diversity in the HR department of a firm. Don't like statistics? Do you like learning? pair it up with arabic, and work for an NGO studying womens rights in the middle east.
The way I've been advised is to have something general enough that you can do a few things (Womens Studies) and then to that general item, add something marketable and relevant that keeps you in the game.
Oh, and some may disagree but I think money is the third consideration between what you like and what's needed. If it's needed and you like it, at the very worst you'll be "ok" as you'll be employed, and at best you'll make big money as you can't help excel in an area you love.
You'd be surprised how many people are not doing work they like, I'm sure most MBAs dont' "loooove" finance and spreadsheets (some number crunchers do--and not coincidentally those tend to be the ones getting paid, but I don't think it gets many salivating)
Again--The trick is to find an intersection between something you like, and something that's needed. It's not an either/or, even though many feel it is. The beauty of this is IMO you insulate yourself against irrelevance, you'll never fear prolonged unemployment.
That number is skewed because of the number of people over 50 or so that don't have a BA. Try finding numbers for people under 50 and I would be that it is significantly higher. Regardless of what other people have these days, the vast majority of employers won't even look at you if you don't have a post-secondary degree of some kind.
I don't believe that is true. But then again I'm in engineering, so a BS is all we really need... I mean-- how many people honestly have masters degrees?
Where are all the employers getting their employees if they all must have master's degrees?
I don't believe that is true. But then again I'm in engineering, so a BS is all we really need... I mean-- how many people honestly have masters degrees?
Where are all the employers getting their employees if they all must have master's degrees?
Post secondary is any level of college--"Secondary education" is middle school/high school.
Yes those worthless art degrees? It's going to be a wonderful world to live in when we are surrounded by the type A, OCD, ultradriven business types or the nerdy, introverted, square engineering type. LOL the OPer is clueless. What a dumb thread. A bachelor's degree is most definitely the new high school degree for most middle class people. You can't even get an interview with most major companies if you don't have a bachelor's. And it's only getting worse.
That number is skewed because of the number of people over 50 or so that don't have a BA. Try finding numbers for people under 50 and I would be that it is significantly higher.
Not true at all...
The number of people going to college has increased a lot among young people, but those that actually graduate with a degree has been pretty constant at 30%, even among the 25-29 year old crowd (still around 30%). The keypoint is that more 50% of college students drop out today.
I have personal experience of this and I can tell you the bachelors degree most certainly is the new high school diploma.
I have over 12 years of finance experience from working overseas, some at board level management, and I've spent the last 4 years working as a temp. I used to get jobs in my lunch break, I was offered one job in an elevator because my experience and reputation in my field was so well known. The minute I stepped off the plane in America 4 years ago it all became worthless, because the minute employers hear I don't have a degree they aren't interested.
I've even been accused of lying on my resume because people don't think it's possible for me to have held such prestigious positions without having letters after my name.
I see jobs advertised around here for entry level staff accountants that want a CPA and an MBA and they're offering $30k. And they're filling these jobs with what they consider to be qualified applicants. There might not be too many graduates out there but there are enough to fill the decent jobs and then some.
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