Why Choose Colorado Springs? (Denver, Fort Collins: sale, crime rate, appliances)

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by Laura

long as you all keep your senarios on that eastern front, things'll be ok. You come here developing all this stuff you are running away from. (you know Denver used to be a very nice town- now you got it developed half way to Kansas!)

Laura, you're quite right. But I don't know what else to do about it. Traffic in the DC metro area (which we fled in 2005, at our earliest opportunity) was so bad the whole area was unlivable. Housing prices were unaffordable for most people; we sure couldn't afford a house back there like we now have here. Big problem in Northern Virginia is they allowed massive growth for 25+ years, but never built ANY roads to handle it. Now, that area is a true nightmare if you have to drive more than a few miles to work at normal rush hour. Here in the Springs, especially on the north end, I see that builders are putting the road networks in WITH our new developments, which will make it workable and actually enjoyable to live here. What the Springs avoided, even if by accident, is the dense urban highrise downtowns of older cities, which are the primary engines generating huge rush-hour "hub & spoke" traffic flows you see in those older cities, and causing correspondingly high regional housing prices (NY, Boston, San Fran, DC, Atlanta, Denver, Los Angeles). Here, the jobs are spread out all over the area, you can afford to live near your job - Halleluyah!

I foresee growth in Colorado staying east of the mountains, along the Front Range and I-25 corridor, and the high-country largely staying undeveloped due to winter weather up there and the difficulty of building cities and roads in what amounts to being in the Alps. Yes, Denver will grow east to Kansas. The whole I-25 corridor will fill in until shut tight, in both directions, north to Cheyenne, WY and south to Pueblo. This cannot be stopped, only managed, hopefully with some degree of sanity and esthetics.

America has been growing since the good ship Mayflower landed at Plymouth's Rock, MA. Growth, per se, isn't a problem. The problem is our land use, planning, zoning, transportation policy and taxation processes are way out of phase between the old and new styles of living, travelling and commuting - especially in dense urban areas. The old way was for short local trips on very land-efficient rail-based systems in compact urban areas. The new style of commuting and travel in those aforementioned traffic-choked metro areas is for long motor vehicle trips on land-greedy highway networks, from the ever more distant suburbs which we can afford, and with a need to park all that sheet metal when we get where we're going. Parking lots take up almost as much land here as the footprint of the office buildings. I'd love to live in a dense urban area like Manhattan, walk to all that I need, or take a convenient subway to work or the quality of life things that enrich our lives, but only 1% of us can afford it, so most people live 50-100 miles out in NJ and commute, and the same is true for most major cities.

European cities are far ahead of American cities in their use of subways and transit systems. The reasons are 2-fold: (1) We Americans have bought into a belief that our automobiles are wonderful devices for improving mobility and freedom, and; (2) Americans and their politicians believe low taxes and endless tax cuts can (somehow, magically) co-exist with a stunning array of top-notch public services and infrastructure. Future historians will be bug-eyed with bewilderment as to how any citizenry, arguably so educated as our own, could worship twin delusional beliefs to a point it destroyed their environment, quality of life and personal wealth.

[jlvs2run]

Mike,

Thanks much for the links.

I can see that Colorado Springs and the other areas there are much better than D.C., however I saw a lot of red flags when driving through the state last September, and saw them by looking on the internet before visiting. These are that most new construction consists of small two story houses on small lots all crammed together with narrow streets in between them. What this does, like the high rises you have mentioned but not that bad, is increase the population density dramatically. Most towns in Colorado already have a higher population density than where I'm living on the California central coast.

I drove south on I-25 from Wyoming to Loveland, then through Denver heading west, and I-25 was a madhouse. It was mostly 2 lanes on each side, with a speed limit of 75 and a sign for trucks to stay in the slow lane and not exceed 65 mph. That didn't stop them though, as one huge truck got right on my bumper and I had to push 75 to keep from getting run over. Finally I managed to squeeze in the slow lane and it whipped by me like I was standing still. I was so happy to get off of that highway!

Hopefully this will add to the information people get who are thinking to move there. I really don't know much about Colorado, except for looking up a lot on the net and driving through that one day. The skies were also not as blue as I'd thought, though one place was totally gorgeous and then I realized it was Vail. Another thing, in addition to the northern part of the state being more crowded, as has been commented, is that weather.com reports it a bit cooler there in the summers, i.e. 86 vs 90. The average here in the summer is 75, although the dew point is higher. Why am I thinking of moving.

Well the dew point here "is" higher. Colorado is dry and, even when it is raining, the humidity and dew points are lower than here. It might be possible to find a house on a lot, and build a second house on another lot, but not where prices are as high or higher than here. As I'm pushing 60, it is getting time to either do this or forget about it, as I don't see doing all that work in a few more years from now. Also I have lived here 18 years and it might be time for a change. I can foresee Los Angeles social climates pushing up here in the next 20 years or so, though we are 180 miles north.

[jlvs2run]

Something I noticed quite a bit of in the Northwest and also Colorado, is a lot of two story houses being built on small lots. I've even noticed two story houses being built on large lots, which doesn't make any sense to me. My dad built a two story house in Texas, against my mom's wishes. Then when they got older they stopped going upstairs any more, effectively losing half of their house.

So many two story houses are being built, for the primary reason that they are easier to build and they save money for developers. However, they are more difficult to normalize the climate, navigate, and to live in. My dad would always close off the upstairs, including the windows and the vents. And this was a house that he built himself, to save money, i.e. 1/2 the slab for two stories.

Even though I was looking for them, it was very difficult to find nice one story houses, and neighborhoods of one story homes. I'd rather not have a two story house next to me, where they are looking into the backyard, the living room or the bedrooms. I think this is a much more serious choice that most people don't think of when buying a house, but certainly should.

[Mike from back east]

John: Sounds like you are in a very nice place there in California, in which case I'd stay put. There are parts of California where housing prices have gone up greatly, and many have cashed out and come here with money to spare. A realtor told me she gets California customers who buy up to 5 houses, one to live in and 3-4 as investments. We lived in a rented house here for 6 months before our new one was ready and even though they were single family homes, about the whole darned street was rental properties owned by investors. We also looked at houses north of Denver in the Fort Collins and Loveland area. Big builders up there, like US Home, Lennar, Ryland, Horton, etc, build 2-story small footprint homes on small lots, cramming them in. Some of that is going on here too, south of town, as the Army is bringing about 12,000 more troops in to be based Fort Carson. Up here on the north side, we have plenty of roomy ranch style houses as well as the two story styles. Prices here are in the $400k to $600k range for a very nice large ranch-style house on decent sized lots.

[richkat]

We've lived in 4 states since 2000 and that's what we're seeing everywhere - houses crammed onto small lots. Here in Florida we turned off our sideyard sprinkler because the neighbor waters it just fine.

- K

[Sundance]

Thanks for all the info about CS.
I've been considering it for awhile now...

[richkat]

Thanks, Mike, for your pointers to links. You've added some new ones to our faithful standbys. While we've done so much research online it's making us dizzy, what I really appreciate are the personal remarks on why you eliminated each one. Making the decision of where is the hardest part - after that, it's just execution.

Besides the research, the personal experiences, you also need to consider your personal needs, your background, etc. As a native Californian having lived in 5 states, I think we'd rather do the heat in Texas than the snow in CO. Something in-between would be better but that's hard to find. Just as my SIL from Ohio said she'd only live east of the Mississippi, we want to live west of the Mississippi.

Also appreciated the article you posted. We saw this happening in San Francisco when we were there and one reason we left the state in 2000. Services were suffering because people in the service industry couldn't afford to live close in and people were renting out people's dining room floors to have a place to sleep at night. We left right before the bust and were so thankful we had.

Thanks, again, for your help.

-- R&K

[oana t]

Mike,
You mentioned some companies and web sites for employment in CoS... Thanks for the useful info. Now, I'm going to relocate in CoS in about a month with my family and I'm looking for a job. I'm a recruiter, have done HR as well. Do you know a good place/site to look for somehing in this field? I've tried the Gazette and all the sites I could find, with not much luck...
Any help or info from you or anybody on this forum is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Oana

[Mike from back east]

Oana T: Sorry, I've nothing I can point you to at this time. It's probably a stretch, but it may be worth contacting some larger firms to talk to their recruiters and see if they have any idea which firms may need a recruiter.

s/Mike

[Jillian]

I lived in Colorado for seven years and loved it! I was in Denver, but made a few trips to Colorado Springs. The whole state is beautiful and the weather isn't as bad as people think. They do have a lot of snow, but the city is equipped to handle it so as to make "traveling" safer.