Springs 2010 budget, attempted MASSIVE tax increase with Prop 2C (Colorado Springs: health insurance, community college)

[Bullitt007]

Originally Posted by Terytee

I lived in the DC area for over 10 years. It is probably the case that your Arlington schools are far superior to D-20 schools here in Colorado, but in case you didn't realize it, the DC area is where the Federal government is located!!! Our school districts don't have all the "high-rollers" in DC. You also said the Arlington area is run down and full of crime, but the school system is great!! I've been there many times....it's not that great.

Also, we don't live in a vacumm out here. Many people who live here have also lived in the DC area......there are lots of military and ex-military people here too........we're not ignorant to other situations in other areas.
If coming here will be "slumming" for you, maybe you should stay where you are. Hate to think you'll be lowering your standards to come here. Also, maybe you should leave the TAX decisions to people who actually LIVE here.

Wow...we agree, yet again. Have a great day!

[Terytee]

Ditto my friend.....thumbs up to you!! The dang page won't let me give any more rep points to ya!!

[Bob from down south]

Originally Posted by Smoke_Jaguar4

Bob, everything has a cost, even if it's not obvious:

Cut back city office hours -> People will now need to take time off from work to get government services. This will have an impact on thier wages and productivity. As an alternative, the City can move most application processes online (but this will take an upfront investment)

I don't follow. If the office is closed on Fridays, or every other Friday, they go on another day. Why does going on Monday vs Friday mean taking time off from work that otherwise wouldn't be taken on a different day?

Originally Posted by Smoke_Jaguar4

Let the USOC go -> You will have a direct loss as an employer closes its doors, plus the loss of associated jobs and revenue from tourism. Tourist are pure gold as they contribute heavily to a city's revenues but require very little services.

Colo Springs has Pike's Peak, Garden of the Gods, Cave of the Winds, Manitou Cliff Dwellings, the AF Academy, the National Rodeo Hall of Fame, among other attractions. If the USOC packs out, it's not going to destroy the local tourism market.

Originally Posted by Smoke_Jaguar4

Scale back our spending on parks -> parks become neglected as maintenance is deferred. As families stop using them, they become havens for criminal activities and drugs.

The parks I grew up with had much less in the way of facilities compared to what we have here now. I'm not worried that families that use parks now will stop using them if there's rust on the chain link fence or some weeds.

Originally Posted by Smoke_Jaguar4

As far as paying 'more' for fire and police, you get what you pay for. What I'm hearing you say is you would accept NYC and Boston crime levels to save some money. I'd rather have the city in a position to choose quality applicants and maintain a professional force to keep crime and emergency losses low.

I don't for a second accept your underlying premise that the CSPD is responsible for a lower crime level here than in a major city like Boston or NYC (or Denver). And I do not accept the idea that if I were to pay the CSPD 25% higher salaries that I'd get 25% better police protection, either. There's a point of diminishing returns beyond which you really don't get what you're paying for.

Originally Posted by Smoke_Jaguar4

Public transportation could probably be rethought. Outside of NYC and DC, I have yet to see a U.S. city that has gotten this one right. Smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles with flexible schedules is what most cities need. But wait, that would take an initial investment (more $$$).

Well, something should first be done with the sizeable investment made so far. I think the taxpayers would willingly fund a system demonstrated to work and provide value. Right now it does neither unless you're in the tiny fringe minority that uses it.

Originally Posted by Smoke_Jaguar4

Overall, it comes down to quality of life. If you want to live with more crime in a rundown city, why don't you visit a place like DC or Atlanta to see where your ideas will really take Colorado Springs?

I've lived in northern VA, the LA basin, and in some real garden spots outside the US. I know what crime looks like. I also know that city government has a LOT less to do with urban blight than the people and businesses in the area.

Originally Posted by Smoke_Jaguar4

As far as D-20 schools go, they may be the best in CoS, but they can't hold a candle to Arlington VA schools (where we're coming from). It will be a huge shift down for my children coming from a nationally recognized school; I guess we'll slum it for a couple of years until we get orders again.

I don't share your high regard for the Arlington schools. I think that's another place where the taxpayer isn't getting what they pay for. The local population there is much better educated than the average, and I attribute the success of students there much more to the homes and parents they go to after school than what happens in the classroom.

Anyway, the voters have spoken. Now the job before all of us is to make the best of our limited resources. There's no doubt in my mind that I'd still rather live in Colorado Springs than Arlington VA next year, and ten years from now. You can have that place, the traffic, the crime, and the sprawl.

[Terytee]

[Bullitt007]

Originally Posted by Bob from down south

I don't follow. If the office is closed on Fridays, or every other Friday, they go on another day. Why does going on Monday vs Friday mean taking time off from work that otherwise wouldn't be taken on a different day?



Colo Springs has Pike's Peak, Garden of the Gods, Cave of the Winds, Manitou Cliff Dwellings, the AF Academy, the National Rodeo Hall of Fame, among other attractions. If the USOC packs out, it's not going to destroy the local tourism market.



The parks I grew up with had much less in the way of facilities compared to what we have here now. I'm not worried that families that use parks now will stop using them if there's rust on the chain link fence or some weeds.



I don't for a second accept your underlying premise that the CSPD is responsible for a lower crime level here than in a major city like Boston or NYC (or Denver). And I do not accept the idea that if I were to pay the CSPD 25% higher salaries that I'd get 25% better police protection, either. There's a point of diminishing returns beyond which you really don't get what you're paying for.



Well, something should first be done with the sizeable investment made so far. I think the taxpayers would willingly fund a system demonstrated to work and provide value. Right now it does neither unless you're in the tiny fringe minority that uses it.



I've lived in northern VA, the LA basin, and in some real garden spots outside the US. I know what crime looks like. I also know that city government has a LOT less to do with urban blight than the people and businesses in the area.



I don't share your high regard for the Arlington schools. I think that's another place where the taxpayer isn't getting what they pay for. The local population there is much better educated than the average, and I attribute the success of students there much more to the homes and parents they go to after school than what happens in the classroom.

Anyway, the voters have spoken. Now the job before all of us is to make the best of our limited resources. There's no doubt in my mind that I'd still rather live in Colorado Springs than Arlington VA next year, and ten years from now. You can have that place, the traffic, the crime, and the sprawl.

Cha-Ching! So true...

[TheBeach]

Wow. I guess people hate their government more than I could have ever imagined. Yes, our elected leaders are worthless air-heads, but who elected them?

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by TheBeach

Wow. I guess people hate their government more than I could have ever imagined. Yes, our elected leaders are worthless air-heads, but who elected them?

Chances are they'll elect another so-called CONservative next time and wonder why they get CONned again. What a hoot.

I got an email today from a pal who tells me that some folks are putting together a recall campaign for our Mayor and Vice Mayor.

[COflower]

What it comes down to is that had the city "leaders" practiced any sense of proper use of existing funds in the last 8 years, people may have opened up their checkbooks when property taxes are due.

Wait, had our city "leaders" practiced any sense of proper use of existing funds to begin with, they wouldn't have had to ask to begin with.

The two biggest bungles in the last year or two are: USOC (let them move out, they've bullied this city long enough and I am tired of it - what was once a sense of pride has become nothing more than a shame) and transportation funding which we approved in 2007 in a very tax stingy city. Those two alone made people wake up to the horrible spending spree our city has been on. In a very tight economy with people going into foreclosure (the highest on record according to KOAA's newscast today) and jobs that are hard to find, there is no love between the citizens of this city and the people that run it.

I still wonder where the money that had been earmarked for the Woodmen/Academy interchange went. It's suddenly been funded (at least in part) by the federal stimulus package and thats been in the works for years, which is part of the reason people approved the transportation sales tax. I also don't get that if that funding has been freed up a bit and ridership is up, where's the money?

I suddenly feel like a Wendy's hamburger...

[Bullitt007]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

Chances are they'll elect another so-called CONservative next time and wonder why they get CONned again. What a hoot.

I got an email today from a pal who tells me that some folks are putting together a recall campaign for our Mayor and Vice Mayor.

When it comes to getting "CONned", no single group/party has the market on it. Sadly, members of all sides do it, especially once they get the power.

I agree that it's time for new leadership, across the board, regardless of political affiliation.

[proveick]

"Where is the money"? Our commander in Chief is making sure our kids will inherit our mismanagement. Lets reward failure. Have you seen your AIG, GM dividend check now that we are share holders? RP