01-17-2008, 01:13 PM
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Colorado needs a Woodpecker breeding program....I hike all the trails and every year I see fewer and fewer of these wonderful creatures.....I know some Hunters who are morons ( 2% or so) like to pick them off for fun....
Hopefully, with all the snow this year it will attenuate the beetle infestation...
01-17-2008, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
jazzlover
By the way, I notice only one of the links posted has a Colorado connection. While much of the advice is applicable, the fire situation in Colorado's increasingly beetle-killed forests is somewhat unique to the Rocky Mountain Region.
I came across these links while researching and designing my "proof" house (not 100 proof
), in this case, "fire proofing" a house built near or abutting a NF or BLM boundary. However, I wouldn't construct a structure in or close to a major beetle kill zone b/c that's just plain silly, but I would build one where the beetles had not invaded yet and use the recommended preventive measures, ie, clear a wide buffer zone surrounding the structure and begin an aggressive beetle insecticide treatment program when trees show signs of infection. Whether these tactics would work may be debatable, but you know, an ounce of prevention...
01-17-2008, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
multitrak
I came across these links while researching and designing my "proof" house (not 100 proof
), in this case, "fire proofing" a house built near or abutting a NF or BLM boundary. However, I wouldn't construct a structure in or close to a major beetle kill zone b/c that's just plain silly, but I would build one where the beetles had not invaded yet and use the recommended preventive measures, ie, clear a wide buffer zone surrounding the structure and begin an aggressive beetle insecticide treatment program when trees show signs of infection. Whether these tactics would work may be debatable, but you know, an ounce of prevention...
When I see the Santa Ana wind fires in CA, I go into daydreaming mode of how I'd build a fire-reistant property there.
Key point is non-combustible construction: real tile roofs, brick walls, no exposed wood/plastic. Large perimeter area cleared of trees/brush. Rock xeriscaping around the structure.
Since most of those CA homes have pools, I'd connect a 3-inch line from the pool to a pump, and then I'd have a sprinkler system on the OUTSIDE of the house, roof and walls, to spray pool water on the house when a fire gets near. Point is to let the water take the heat load and evaporate off.
More esoteric steps would include metal storm shutters over the windows, to reflect fire heat and keep wind-driven flaming debris from breaking the glass and getting in the structure. Perhaps a concrete tornado shelter below ground, but not directly under the house, entered via a fire resistance door in the basement, well stocked for surviving 3+ days.
All sorts of things can be done, just takes money. I'll save my money and live in a reasonable area. When the spirit moves me, I'll rent a mountain retreat, beach home, boat, horse, etc, then walk away from it afterwards.
01-17-2008, 06:16 PM
Location: Bend, OR
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Jazzlover is correct. The beetle problem is not just limited to lodgepole forests. A reference was made regarding the forests around Buena Vista and that they didn't look that bad. Unfortunately, the hardest hit in that area were the Ponderosa Pine trees. I used to work for the Forest Service in that area and the beetles were running rampant around 1998-2001. A lot of the Ponderosa in that area were killed.
The beetle is a natural forest thinner, but unfortunately, due to fire suppression and other things, we are seeing epidemic populations. I sincerely hope we don't lose all of our lodgepole pine forests in Colorado, but I have a feeling we will have beetle kill similar to the spruce beetle in the past. When I was in Forestry school back in the mid-nineties, my professors predicted this epidemic. They knew what was coming, but the Forest Service and other government agencies could do nothing about it. As a former employee, I know all to well the beauracracy involved.
01-17-2008, 08:06 PM
Location: Denver
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This whole thing makes me sad. Nature needs to do what nature naturally should do - and we it doesn't seem to be allowed. In the end, I think nature will win out.
01-17-2008, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
delta07
.... When I was in Forestry school back in the mid-nineties, my professors predicted this epidemic. They knew what was coming, but the Forest Service and other government agencies could do nothing about it. As a former employee, I know all to well the beauracracy involved.
People who haven't been in government just do not know and cannot comprehend the incredible processes that agencies must follow in order to just "do" something about something that isn't a part of the annual budget plan.
When something 'new' comes along, like this beetle infestation, the money to fight it isn't there and the process to get money in a budget is beyond belief. It can take years to get a new line in a Federal budget, unless its top loaded by direction of the Executive Branch or Congress. In rare cases, Federal court decisions or changes in public law dictate spending, usually known as "compliance" spending, in which cases money flows, and quickly.
To get money in an agency budget, the problem/threat has to be identified, the solution defined & priced, assurances of success given (hah!) and justified every step of the way up the chain. Then Congress gets it and they scrutinize it, lining out stuff they don't like. Every $1M they line out of YOUR budget is $1M in earmarks they can pass on to a vested interest pal of their's. In some cases, another agency, or another part of your own agency, may claim they have jurisdiction or the mission in the area of concern, and try to take the budget line from you - it happens more than you might think. I defended a few budget lines like that. Then, when the money does come down in the year of budget execution, your agency chief may decide to do something else with that money - it's their agency to run, not yours. Seen it happen all the time.
In the military services it's even worse. After a particular service (in my case the Army) assembled it's program, it went to a middle man (Office of the Secretary of Defense) who gets months to play with it, scrub it, make you justify it, compare it to other services for duplication or chances to merge programs, look for stuff they want to kill, etc. After that, it finally goes over to Congress and they start all over. Big programs usually brief the House and/or Senate Armed Service Committees, or others. Military construction money is even more fun - talk about pork and politics, wow, that's another whole "type" of money in budget language.
I worked in the budget/program processes at the Army level, it was enough to drive you crazy. Half of DC is in the program/budget game. It drives some people nuts. There are more shrinks in the DC area, per capita, then anywhere in the nation. People come there to do good stuff for the nation and get the mother of all reality checks when they see the bordello-like atmosphere in the halls of Congress, where all virtue is for sale, all the time. Got bucks? Door's open!
07-22-2008, 07:19 PM
Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA
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07-22-2008, 09:21 PM
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Not a happy prospect
Entire mountain sides on the west side of Rocky Mountain National Park and in the vicinity of Grand Lake, CO are largely dead and dying trees, brown save for small patches of verdant green aspen. Maybe the Pine Beetle are no longer present there, but certainly are elsewhere. On the east side of RMNP, near Estes Park, CO, one can see increasing evidence of this infestation.
A professional forester from Colorado State University I talked with about this said they hoped that the greater diversity of trees on the east side would temper the impact. But she also said that when the Pine Beetle runs out of food that in extremis it will attack other species of tree, even though as unsuitable hosts they will not allow it to go through a full reproductive cycle.
The general range of lodgepole pine within Colorado is in the north central part of the state. But all other tree species are susceptible as each has various bugs and viruses particular to each. There is a sign placed near Harbison Picnic Area within RMNP that tells visitors about the Pine Beetle infestation. One would assume the Park Service is relatively conservative in such things, but this sign specifically says they presume global climate change has a lot to do with the present large infestation. While the Pine Beetle is native to these forests, the former balance is gone and conditions ripe for a plague of sorts. Trees that are unduly stressed or otherwise unhealthy are particularly susceptible. That means all species of trees.
Man shares responsibility in other respects as well. While this forester noted that it is natural for individual trees to die inexplicably at any given time, that most of the dead and dying large, mature ponderosa and other trees directly along Colorado's highways the direct result of the State's use of Magnesium Chloride to deal with snow in the winter. The use of this chemical within Colorado is a fairly recent development, but increasing exponentially, and it is responsible for not only many of the dead trees but also polluting nearby rivers these highways often parallel.
She was somewhat sanguine in noting that of course in time trees would regenerate in areas killed by beetles, and perhaps even a better balance of different species emerge. But of course something like this measured in decades.
07-22-2008, 09:36 PM
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Ecologically speaking, the truth is that the sooner the fires start and burn the beetle-infested lodgepole forests (and the heat of the fires releases the seeds from the lodgepoles' serotinous cones), the sooner the forest can start to regenerate. Of course, the people who built their trophy houses in those forests will wig out about any fire--and the Forest Service, politically likely to kowtow to those interests, will make every effort to suppress any fire that threatens structures, even though that isn't/shouldn't be their primary mission. Despite all such efforts, though, eventually those dead lodgepole forests will burn, and the successionary cycle in the forest will begin again. Mother Nature bats last . . .
07-22-2008, 10:01 PM
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In magnitude
I forgot to mention that this forester also mentioned that to be effective, if a tree sprayed against beetle infestation, that the entire trunk of the tree must be sprayed. Right to the top. Take a look at your favorite tall tree and imagine the magnitude of that task. She wasn't aware off hand of any sprays for beetles that were not toxic. Meaning, not the kind of things you want on yourself or in nearby water.
It is hard to imagine how some of these forests will not burn, and in magnificent fashion. Entire mountain sides are ready and primed for it. Certain selective removal of affected trees are being done near residences in communities. But a first hand look at wilderness to the horizon reveals the magnitude of the dilemma.
The Forest Service has said the size and intensity of forest fires have increased significantly in the last several decades. And quite candidly that with the larger fires all they can hope to do is save certain select, small spots.
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Housing units in structures - 1, detached (%)
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Housing units in structures - 2 (%)
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Housing units in structures - 10 to 19 (%)
Housing units in structures - 20 to 49 (%)
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Housing units in structures - Mobile home (%)
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House/condo owner moved in on average (years ago)
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Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1999 to March 2000 (%)
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Most Common Occupations - Office and administrative support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)