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That's one of the things about Denver I always HATED. Nobody knows their neighbor because everybody's moving around all the time. It must be one of the most transient (not homeless....but rootless) cities out there. I think so many people in Denver seem aloof and reserved because nobody needs to be committed to the community--they'll be gone in a few years anyway. There's just no investment.....
Yes, there is some truth to what you say. The most transient areas are the ones that attract the upward mobile professionals, who will move quickly for another job opportunity and do not become involved in the communities. There are many of these places in Colorado because it is now viewed as "a place to be". However, as in all areas of the country, there are towns, neighborhoods and areas that are not so attracted to these "successful" people.
These areas do not have the bragging rights, maybe not as new, or well know, or the place where the "new rich" flock. They are not in the "right" neighborhoods; they do not necessarily have the most modern homes; the biggest lots. These areas may have diverse populous of the poor; the colored; or the unfortunate. These are all the areas that you will not find the "transient upward mobile".
In these areas you will find long term residences. You will find people who know people from grade school and high school. You will find people who go to the same church as their parents, their grandparents. You will find people who regularly joined and participate, year to year, in softball teams, bowling teams. You will find people who participate in town and neighborhood events. You will find many people who work for less, are satisfied with less, and enjoy simpler pleasures. You will find people who value "place", community, family, above all else. What you will find in these areas, are neighborhoods, towns that have people who are involved because this is their community where they live, and where they will die.
Yes, there are many places in Colorado that are not "transient"; that are a community. To find them, go not where there are the multitudes of the "transient upward mobile"; go to another place. Find a neighborhood that has more residences that were born in the state or long term residences--they are here.
I am from New York and I have been here for almost 30 years. In the Denver Metro Area, there are many areas that have a strong sense of community because they do not attract too much of the successful transients. These areas would be more in the western suburbs like Arvada, Wheat Ridge, Lakewood, Westminster. They would be in smaller towns like Edgewater, Mountain View. You will find these areas in smaller communities in Northglenn, Thornton. You will see neighborhoods in Broomfield, Englewood, Littleton, Aurora. There are many neighborhoods of Denver that are not considered by the new immigrants---look for the areas less attractive to the new rich, and you will find more of a community.
And when you find these communities, stop at a community ball field and watch a softball game on a Saturday Afternoon. Go to the local church and become involved with the charities and the good works. Go to the community centers, take courses, join groups. In the evening go out to the long term local restaurants and pubs and meet many satisfied and happy people. Attend a city council meeting; learn the history of the areas; go visit a nursing home and meet very long term residences---by this you will find the cherished American communities and you can Livecontent.
I moved to Fort Collins in 2001 for my wife's job and began my own job search in earnest. We bought our home in early-summer that year, having to bid up on it due to its proximity to LSI, HP, Agilent, etc... and the booming tech economy. Within months, that changed and job prospects dried up. Then 9/11 hit and the economy was really in the crapper. I did find a job, but it was one that had me travelling 60%+, mostly in SE Wyoming and western Nebraska. Once I'd get home, I was worn out enough from work and travelling that we didn't get out and enjoy being in Colorado enough. Despite loving the area, a great job offer with a former employer for me back "home" in North Carolina, where we both were from and where both our families live, had us moving away after only 15 months. We've been gone for 5 1/2 years now and miss Colorado dearly. There's even a slight chance that we could be moving back there, at least for a few years, very soon.
One thing I learned while living in Colorado is how much life just gets in the way of doing the things one wants to do. I'm a mountaineer and skier, and so of course I had "arrived" when we moved to Colorado. Funny thing though...I skied less days the winter we lived in Colorado than I had any year prior to that. Since moving back east, I have made at least one trip per year to the west for climbing and/or skiing, and I've found I better enjoy my time in the mountains without feeling like I should hurry home to take care of something there. I certainly miss my view of Long's Peak from the house, but I get to see my family a lot, and my son has a very close relationship with his grandparents, aunts, uncles & cousins.
Yes, there is some truth to what you say. The most transient areas are the ones that attract the upward mobile professionals, who will move quickly for another job opportunity and do not become involved in the communities. There are many of these places in Colorado because it is now viewed as "a place to be". However, as in all areas of the country, there are towns, neighborhoods and areas that are not so attracted to these "successful" people.
These areas do not have the bragging rights, maybe not as new, or well know, or the place where the "new rich" flock. They are not in the "right" neighborhoods; they do not necessarily have the most modern homes; the biggest lots. These areas may have diverse populous of the poor; the colored; or the unfortunate. These are all the areas that you will not find the "transient upward mobile".
In these areas you will find long term residences. You will find people who know people from grade school and high school. You will find people who go to the same church as their parents, their grandparents. You will find people who regularly joined and participate, year to year, in softball teams, bowling teams. You will find people who participate in town and neighborhood events. You will find many people who work for less, are satisfied with less, and enjoy simpler pleasures. You will find people who value "place", community, family, above all else. What you will find in these areas, are neighborhoods, towns that have people who are involved because this is their community where they live, and where they will die.
Yes, there are many places in Colorado that are not "transient"; that are a community. To find them, go not where there are the multitudes of the "transient upward mobile"; go to another place. Find a neighborhood that has more residences that were born in the state or long term residences--they are here.
I am from New York and I have been here for almost 30 years. In the Denver Metro Area, there are many areas that have a strong sense of community because they do not attract too much of the successful transients. These areas would be more in the western suburbs like Arvada, Wheat Ridge, Lakewood, Westminster. They would be in smaller towns like Edgewater, Mountain View. You will find these areas in smaller communities in Northglenn, Thornton. You will see neighborhoods in Broomfield, Englewood, Littleton, Aurora. There are many neighborhoods of Denver that are not considered by the new immigrants---look for the areas less attractive to the new rich, and you will find more of a community.
And when you find these communities, stop at a community ball field and watch a softball game on a Saturday Afternoon. Go to the local church and become involved with the charities and the good works. Go to the community centers, take courses, join groups. In the evening go out to the long term local restaurants and pubs and meet many satisfied and happy people. Attend a city council meeting; learn the history of the areas; go visit a nursing home and meet very long term residences---by this you will find the cherished American communities and you can Livecontent.
This sounds 100% backwards. Regarding the one of the other posts, does anyone have any data or evidence that Denver as a city is any more transient than anywhere else?
Who are more likely to be transient, renters or homeowers?
"On the other hand, since renters are more transient than owners..."
Which economic group is more likely to rent versus own a home? "the poor; the colored; or the unfortunate..." (the huddled masses were left out for some reason....) OR the the guy with the down payment who pays taxes, the "upwardly mobile"? Which community is more likely to have crime, litter and graffiti?
"NEIGHBORING. It is thought that homeowners, unlike more transient renters, will more readily forge the informal social and mutual support relationships that foster close-knit, nurturing communities. In fact, several studies have found evidence that homeownership is positively associated with higher levels of neighboring."
"One of the most persistent claims made for homeownership is that owners have a greater economic and emotional stake in their community and thus are more likely than renters to act in ways that maintain and strengthen that community."
There is no doubt that "transience" in a neighborhood, town, or city detracts from the sense of community there. Extended families don't tend to exist in most such places, and "transient" residents don't tend to participate in community affairs or have a vested interest in long-term community needs or goals.
Unfortunately, more communities in Colorado are "transient" in nature than those that are not. Virtually all the resort towns are transient, either because of economic conditions or the very fact that many of the residents only "live" there seasonally. As other posters have noted, many other Colorado communities are quite transient because many major employers in them tend to frequently move or transfer employees, or have high fluctuations in employment levels. Probably the worst city in Colorado for transience is Colorado Springs, because of the large percentage of military personnel (both direct military personnel and the associated non-military people employed at the bases and associated industries) who tend to be quite transient.
Even many smaller Colorado towns that traditionally have been relatively non-transient have become more so. This is because the more attractive of them tend to draw a lot of older retirees who--quite bluntly--move there, live just a relatively few years, and die. They also do not generally have children there, so many of them take little interest in local schools or the like. This at the same time as most of those towns hold very poor job prospects for young people growing up there--so the towns are also exporting most of their young adult population.
To be sure, there are pockets of stable neighborhoods and some relatively stable communities, but people looking for stable communities with a majority of long-term residents and extended families will find that in relatively few Colorado locales. That's too bad, in my opinion, and probably one the more negative things that has happened to Colorado in the last 30-40 years or so. And, yes, Colorado is by no means the only place this is happening. It is sort of a national epidemic, and I don't really consider it positive for the US.
Yes, there is some truth to what you say. The most transient areas are the ones that attract the upward mobile professionals, who will move quickly for another job opportunity and do not become involved in the communities. There are many of these places in Colorado because it is now viewed as "a place to be". However, as in all areas of the country, there are towns, neighborhoods and areas that are not so attracted to these "successful" people.
These areas do not have the bragging rights, maybe not as new, or well know, or the place where the "new rich" flock. They are not in the "right" neighborhoods; they do not necessarily have the most modern homes; the biggest lots. These areas may have diverse populous of the poor; the colored; or the unfortunate. These are all the areas that you will not find the "transient upward mobile".
In these areas you will find long term residences. You will find people who know people from grade school and high school. You will find people who go to the same church as their parents, their grandparents. You will find people who regularly joined and participate, year to year, in softball teams, bowling teams. You will find people who participate in town and neighborhood events. You will find many people who work for less, are satisfied with less, and enjoy simpler pleasures. You will find people who value "place", community, family, above all else. What you will find in these areas, are neighborhoods, towns that have people who are involved because this is their community where they live, and where they will die.
Yes, there are many places in Colorado that are not "transient"; that are a community. To find them, go not where there are the multitudes of the "transient upward mobile"; go to another place. Find a neighborhood that has more residences that were born in the state or long term residences--they are here.
I am from New York and I have been here for almost 30 years. In the Denver Metro Area, there are many areas that have a strong sense of community because they do not attract too much of the successful transients. These areas would be more in the western suburbs like Arvada, Wheat Ridge, Lakewood, Westminster. They would be in smaller towns like Edgewater, Mountain View. You will find these areas in smaller communities in Northglenn, Thornton. You will see neighborhoods in Broomfield, Englewood, Littleton, Aurora. There are many neighborhoods of Denver that are not considered by the new immigrants---look for the areas less attractive to the new rich, and you will find more of a community.
And when you find these communities, stop at a community ball field and watch a softball game on a Saturday Afternoon. Go to the local church and become involved with the charities and the good works. Go to the community centers, take courses, join groups. In the evening go out to the long term local restaurants and pubs and meet many satisfied and happy people. Attend a city council meeting; learn the history of the areas; go visit a nursing home and meet very long term residences---by this you will find the cherished American communities and you can Livecontent.
Well said! Hey...I'm a fourth generation Coloradan. I had plenty of roots in the state. lol. But for the vast, vast majority of people around me....it always seemed that they were just sort of floating by--there for the skiing, the beer, and the sports. And as soon as that got old (or expensive), they'd be off to wherever their fancy took them. I still hold that there's too little investment by people in Colorado towards their cities. Certainly not on the scale of many towns in the midwest. I just don't get a very substantial "sense of place" in Denver. And that's really too bad.
However...immigration is slowing and it looks like the next generation of Coloradans will have a chance to put down some roots. Let's hope they do just that.....
I lived in California briefly in the early 70s. I worked in obstetrics at the time, and I would talk with my patients about this "new" generation of people born in California. That was almost 40 yrs ago now! Now, many Californians have family there, going back a generation or two. The same will happen, I think, in Colorado. DH and I moved here as newlyweds in 1980. We moved away once, because he lost his job. We came back and have been back 19 yrs now (27 yrs total in the last 28). Our kids are young adults and are establishing their roots here. My oldest, in particular, wants to stay here, after having gone out of state to college. My personal story isn't that important, what is important is that it is being repeated over and over again. Many of DD#1's friends are here in Colorado, working. Many of both of my kids' classmates went to school at CU or CSU, then find jobs here when they're done.
I do not understand what you mean that whaI I have said is "100% backwards". I was trying to say that less "successful" and less "upward mobile" areas have more long term residences, which to me gives more a sense of community.
I did look up information before I wrote at the US Census Bureau Geographic Mobility/Migration
and specifically from this page this spreadsheet Geographic Mobility/Migration State of Residence in 2000 by State of Birth: 2000, Excel file
You will see that this data from 2000 shows that the most desirable states have the least "born in the state of current residence" where Colorado has 41.1% and Mississippi has 74.3%, for example. The data is very consistent, with the perceptions of desirability and economic opportunity, having a direct positive relationship with "born in state of residence" .
This infomation is at the state level. However, I assume at the micro level of towns and neighborhoods in a state, that the same relationship would hold true.
Katiana has made a good point. Long term residences can come from migrations of people who establish a new home, raise children and stay in the area. These type of people also add to a sense of community and it does not mean that they are any less successful or upward mobile. Communities stability is based on long term and state born residences. At the same time we need the upward mobile, the more aggressive, creative people and the "transients" to bring change and opportunity into a community or the area will become stale and decay, even though there are many long term residences. A good example is where I came from, that is Western New York---many long term residents, very few newcomers, and consequently economic and social decay. However, too many "transients" upset the balance and we have a Las Vegas type of area with less sense of community.
Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 02-27-2008 at 10:24 AM..
[quote=livecontent;2962334]
...You will see that this data from 2000 shows that the most desirable states have the least "born in the state of current residence" where Colorado has 41.1% and Mississippi has 74.3%, for example. The data is very consistent, with the perceptions of desirability and economic opportunity, having a direct positive relationship with "born in state of residence" .../QUOTE]
I just noticed that this is wrong--I meant to say "an inverse relationship" between desiriability and economic opportunity with "born in state of residence". So as a state becomes more attractive the percentage of born in state decrease because of the influx of "transient" people seeking opportunity. Again this may not be good for a "sense of community".
Current Coloradans have been spoiled by about two decades of abnormally robust national and state economic growth. For those who have relocated to Colorado in the last 10-20 years, they think that what they have seen here economically is the norm. It is not.
I believe the next several years--maybe more than several--may turn out to be quite economically challenging in Colorado. When that happens, I think a lot of Colorado "wannabes" may find Colorado disappearing behind them in their rear view mirrors. The people who stay will be the ones who are willing to accept what Colorado really is on much more austere terms.
I am continually impressed by the oceans of experience reflected in you posts. I intend to go through and read all of them as time permits! We lived in COS in 1985 and came to genuinely like the area and people. I know it has changed dramatically, but everything thing else has too. It is our hope to make Colorado our next-to-last move (the last one being to the cemetery ["older retirees who--quite bluntly--move there, live just a relatively few years, and die."] Yeah, that would be us, but we'll try to be active in the community and hope to be assets nevertheless ). Thanks for all the solid info!
I moved to the Granby area in 95 and we loved it! but had to go back to California to care for my mom who had cancer. We would move back to Colorado tommorrow (not Granby too cold)
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Loved it
