Jobs/Landscape in CO Springs vs. Fort Collins (Durango, Bayfield: neighbourhood, move)

[idahomama]

Mary Lou-
Just curious if you happen to be Christian11's relative ????? Good luck your move decision.

[Kaptain Karl]

Originally Posted by lovesunnydays

Do you think Louisville, Lafayette, Superior, or Longmont are "friendly" to newcomers?

IMO, you ordered these towns in precisely their rank of "Friendliness". (And all of them are friendlier than [that other town I posted about].)

As you and MaryLou indicated, if you are a "joiner"; not just a taker, you'll do fine. I mean Civic groups, School-related groups, Church, Synagogue, Soccer Clubs, Hobby-related groups, etc. (Not ALL of them; just the ones with shared interests...!)

- KK

[Kaptain Karl]

A thoughtful and informative post, tfox. (I'll "pick a nit" later....)

Originally Posted by tfox

... Landscaping is difficult here - nothing will grow without irrigation, liberal use of fertilizers either natural or otherwise, and just a lot of care. Summer water restrictions, etc make providing this kind of care difficult.

Look into Xeriscaping, too. Many of my neighbors' yards are xeriscaped ... with an "island" or two of grass / flowers / lushness.

Anyway, one reason why CS may look a little unkempt is that politically, CS is very conservative, and as you know conservatives in Colorado have a "starve the government" type of ethic.

This strikes me as a bit of political "cheap shot." I recently learned that most of the Parks and popular "Community Areas" in The Springs were donated / funded by "those bad ol' Conservative business leaders...."

Although CS Mayor Rivera is actually pretty moderate ...

The "jury is still out...." I put much of the blame for the run-down look of The Springs on the former mayor ... Makepeace. She just took up space.

... there are some conservative/libertarian ideologues on the city council and especially on the county commissioners (think Douglas Bruce).

Woa!!! You're placing blame for City neglect on a County Commissioner??? Unfair.

FC is IMO is politically is more balanced politically between Boulder-style strong civic planning and free-market ...

Agreed ... but not with your "conclusion" (following).

... which I think leads to a greater amount of civic investment.

I don't see the "causation" you apparently see.

On crime, and its trends, I agree -- and think you described it quite well.

______________

Originally Posted by MaryLou2007

Here is my bit of experince with "friendly welcoming local folk to out-of-state individuals":

<snip>

So, to me, feeling welcomed by local folks is something you earn, to an extent. You the "outsider" have to "prove" to the locals that you have good intentions. You have the burden of proof to do that. You cannot expect locals to recklessly embrace someone of a different cultural setting one their first day. You need to mantain your home, talk to neighbors, join local groups/churches and etc. Then people will see how out-of-state folks are nice and you will feel right at home!

Wow! Bingo, ML!

P.S. Changing your Auto Registration to Colorado right-away helps. Those out-of-state plates can/do attract unwelcome attention....

- KK

[tfox]

Kaptain Karl -- LOL, I'm not going to take the bait on that one. You do bring up some good points; I'm glad that MaryLou is able to get a number different perspectives.

[MaryLou2007]

You both (KK & TFox) have been extremely helpful... you guys certainly give this board not just credibility, but also a variety of opinions and information that readers, such as myself, need and appreciate. Thank you.

KK:

As for Xeriscaping, we have that here in FL too, as the climate is wet, BUT it is extermely sandy, poor soil and nutrients. Plus we go through an entire winter (3 months) without seen a drop of rain.

I recall from being in FC in '06, people seemed to have green, green yards, meaning they had Tulips.. you know stuff that needs water. I understand there are/were water restrictions in CO, but just how tough are these restrictions?? Is it the “water 2x week at night” thing?

KK, I honestly think Tfox was trying to say Conservatives want less taxes and less government intervention. I believe in the market, I like to see the market do more and the government be less involved. But in terms of upkeeping a town's appearance, I think that the government should somewhat get involved (not necessarily financially) to get the town to maintain its look.

As for CS, I find it surprisingly attractive because a of the conservative mindset and the church folk.

I appreciate your “change the tags ASAP” tip. I honestly thought about keeping the FL tags for a while, as there are tons of the EXTREMELY ANNOYING traffic camerages all over CO (ugh) and FL cars only have rear plates, thus making the cameras useless.

The “unwelcome attention” you mention... is it opening yourself up for criminals or people trying to take advantage of you or something else?

**

Now for Tfox:

You make a good point. Maybe it is an acquired taste to enjoy the dry landscape. I currently am a big fan of the more green and lush landscape.. I know CO has a ton green... in the mountains (WP, Estes Park, Breckenridge, etc). These are impossible to live in though, as they are expensive and they don't have a lot of jobs.

I found FC to have more green, a bit less clay (instead of clay, I remember seeing yellowish/greenish grass on the ground, specially in the foothills in FC). I really like wildflowers... I just don't know if I like the whole desert look... So, maybe the FC landscape will be an easier adjustment than CS..? I mean, CS has Pikes Peak and it's like totally amazing, but besides that, it feels kinda desertic, doesn't it?

I know the snow has been a Godsent, despite the whinners who complain about being home and missing work for a few days (honestly, I would love to get a snow break like that once in a while). Has the 10-year “Drought” really affected CO all that much? I mean, in SoCal, people are literary out of water in a few years becausee of the population explosion there. How bad is the drought in CO? I did a search on it on Yahoo - didn't find a whole lot. Are you guys just getting less rain, is that it? Or are the pop increases just taking up more water than it can be replaced? How bad are the water supplies for CS & FC?

I kinda thought the whole clay soil would be an uphill battle with the garden. I myself am not someone who has to have super green grass. Honestly, I rather have wild grassy vegetation than grass, grass is a total pain in the butt, BUT I know HOA will want to see grass in the front yard. >_< I am definitely going to check nurseries for CO specific-soil nutrients. Thanks for the tip.

I prefer the natural trees as well, but you know, even if the trees are planted, I need to see green to feel like I am in a more of an “oasis” than in a desert.

It is too bad that CS doesn't have more trees in-town. FC has a ton, I know FC is newer and has had a chance to plant the town a lot more than CS. But because of you, we are going there to check CS out, as the town is just attractive to us in terms of the family-orientation and the local churches.

How insane is that, selling a house w/o grass in the back?!?

Another shocker... are homes in CS also built without A/C??? I know summers in CO are tolerable, but come on, you need A/C. I saw several homes in FC that don't have an A/C unit, they only have the wiring!? Is this normal??

That is real relief to know that there are still safe places to live in America. Here in Orlando, it's going to be crack town USA soon, they have NO plan to contain it. They need to get ICE to deport people and deny bond to the drug dealer aliens. Most of the house dealers these days are illegal, no sceret there. They are finally asking people about their immigration status on traffic stops... about time!

But if you say meth users are generally not as bad... then I feel better. I appreciate you telling me. As for college drunk drivers, we have a small SUV and a car with tons of safety but that is a risk of living where they have a college. >_<

Does CS have any law schools? Does CS have a lot of college kids... or CS has a lot, but because of the larger pop, it doesn't feel like it?

Thanks you guys for all your help!

[Kaptain Karl]

Originally Posted by MaryLou2007

The “unwelcome attention” you mention... is it opening yourself up for criminals or people trying to take advantage of you or something else?

I just meant insults and wise-cracks ... which get old after the 55th time....

- KK

[Katarina Witt]

Marylou2007,

I am afraid you will find virtually NO PLACE in Colorado that actually welcomes newcomers! I discovered this when I moved here in 1980. It has not changed. Some people may tolerate newcomers more, but welcome? NO!!! Everyone here seems to think that they have divine right to live here, but no one else should ever arrive after them. You will here a lot about the new arrivals and how they (you) are ruining their nirvana. You get used to it after a while. New Yorkers, and all easterners, seem especially despised, also Califonians. On the other hand, you will meet people from everywhere, and eventually you will just tune it out. The fastest-growing areas seem to be the worst. Schools get overcrowded, and the newcomers are blamed, etc.

You also seem to be way concerned about "greeness". Everyone who posted that this is a semi-desert is correct. If you like green, maybe you should consider somewhere else.

Your comment about "old money" in Colorado Springs made me smile. I have never lived there, though I do have relatives there. In general, no one talks about "old money" or "new money" around here . . . Thank God!

[Cin]

Sadly...just having arrived a few weeks ago in FC...I am finding it pretty darn unwelcoming. I feel quite depressed....article write up made it seem like something it is not. I know it is cold right now and I am trying to factor that in...however if you tell anyone you are from somewhere else and just moved here....you won't typically get a warm reception. One out of seven will be okay...but way worse than Phoenix area and I am in shock! I really have had to start up all conversations w/parents at school...a couple have been actually nice...one is from AZ herself and another is a native of FC....others and they are from CA and AZ....standoffish. People on this forum are friendly...but that doesn't help when you are in a new place with no roots...something to think about...people pass on the friendliness to others...it seems the new American way is to ignore people no matter where you are...lets try not to be a part of the problem. Cin By the way...I guess this should be posted in are people welcoming here....but I will say it seemed quite green here when I visited in October...but that shouldn't be the most important thing...the people should be I think

[Kaptain Karl]

Cin - What "activity groups" have you checked-out? (Sports, Church, Political Groups, The Arts, Etc.) Have you made contact with these like-minded people? If so -- and you are still cooly received -- I'm heartily sorry.

- KK

[Cin]

Thanks Karl,
I will be searching out churches starting this weekend....and someone told me this is pretty much the way it is here....I know though that there are all kinds everywhere and I will be okay. I will refuse to let this take me down...I haven't been here long enough...just thought initially people would be a bit more welcoming at kids school and in the neighborhood. I will just forge my way in where I can and not let myself crawl away! It is just a bit tougher than I was expecting..nothing wrong with a challenge. Cin