Moving to Montrose (participate)

[CosmicWizard]

Josseppie wrote:

"We did not build the highways because we are a great country, We are a great country because we built the highways"

I don't buy this at all. It's more like we squandered a golden opportunity during the era of cheap oil to build the best public transportation system on the planet. Instead we wasted so much of that cheap energy building an infrastructure for the automobile and the sprawling, soulless suburbia that it spawned. Without cheap energy to maintain it, the days of suburbia as we know it appear to be numbered.

[Josseppie]

I don't necessarily disagree with you about suburbia but when they say highways made us a great country they are referring to how the interstate system made possible for goods to be transported from one area to another faster and cheaper. That is what made us a great country and sets up apart from other parts of the world who do not have a modern interstate system.

[CosmicWizard]

Josseppie wrote:

...they say highways made us a great country they are referring to how the interstate system made possible for goods to be transported from one area to another faster and cheaper.

But was/is it really cheaper, or just some slick lobbying by the automobile industry? I'm convinced it was the latter. Also I question wether or not FASTER is really a benefit. Perhaps we'd all be better off if we were not so addicted to everything happening fast, faster, and faster yet. I'm guessing that 90% of the time, there would be absolutely no negative impact ( other than an impatient, spoiled human being ) waiting an extra day or two for the item to be delivered by railroad instead of an 18 wheeler.

[Josseppie]

Admittedly I am spoiled and I want things fast as can be that in my opinion is one of the benefits of living in the 21st century compared any other time when all they had was horse and buggy.

That being said in some ways fast is a necessity and as our world becomes even more connected that will become more true.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by kkelloww

Hi, I'll be moving my family to Montrose in June and I have a question for anybody that is familiar with the road conditions from Durango to Montrose on 550. Something I read said that it could best be described as "harrowing". I'll be driving a 22' U-Haul and I'm trying to decide if I want to tow my car behind it. I didn't especially like driving that setup in flat conditions so this move has got me kind of worried.

Harrowing is an apt description. I think the photo Jazz posted in Red Mountain Pass, not sure, but I drove Durango to Montrose in November and I've never seen roads like that before. I stopped the car, opened the sunroof and look straight up at 200+ feet of rock with none of the usual 'falling rock' fences, and off to my left were significant drop offs with no guardrails. I also stopped to read the names on the memorial marker for plow truck drivers who've been killed on that road over the years.

I'm sure you can get a U-haul through there, but it will be challenging. If that thing breaks down, you will be far from help. If you can find another route, it may be worth taking, but if you make that drive, you'll love it.

Pardon the 15-20 off topic posts, we like to bicker with each other here in this forum.

[DOUBLE H]

Kkelloww. For a lot safer drive to Montrose from Durango there are a couple safer alternatives.

Take 160 west out of Durango to Cortez. Then take U.S. 491 to Dove Creek. Seven miles past Dove Creekturn right on State highway 141. The only spot where you will be dropping in altitude is Slick Rock Hill and you are dropping in elevation, no climbing involved. Dove Creek's elevation is near 6900 feet, and when you get down to the bottom of the hill your are a little less than 5000 feet. The grade is 6%, meaning you are dropping 6 feet for every 100 feet you are traveling. As you are going through Naturita stay on 141 as the road splits off. You'll go across pretty red rock country but keep in mind there are a lot of deer that cross the highway. You climb gradually going across Gypsum Gap, but it is an easier drive, MUCH easier. You only have rancher traffic, occasional semis hauling livestock, and a little construction traffic generally around Slick Rock. Hwy 141 joins up with U.S. 50 at Whitewater, ten miles south of Grand Junction.

Another route is going through Cortez and staying on 491 to Monticello, Utah, maybe 20 miles west of Dove Creek. You then take a right turn to U.S. 191 and head north, past Moab, to Interstate 70, and backtrack to Grand Junction.I am not sure whether Utah requires rental trucks to stop at the Port Of Entry at Monticello. If they do, they will either wave you on or just have you come inside to double check registration papers. I don't think they do, but best to check with the company you are renting the truck from. Any other ?'s feel free to send a personal message to me.

[Josseppie]

Highway 50 is the best way from Gand Junction though.......

[DOUBLE H]

I was responding to post #1. The OP was asking direction from Durango to Montrose.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

Actually highway building is exactly what we need right now to help get this economy moving again. That is why President Obama has included that in his stimullious plan.


"We did not build the highways because we are a great country,
We are a great country because we built the highways"

That's crap. The Interstate highway system started as "Defense Highways," with the now discredited idea that it would offer a way to quickly evacuate the cities in a nuclear emergency. Is that a laugh?--they can't get people quickly out of the cities after a normal workday! They also were originally built to be able to transport Titan missiles on those highways. That's why if you travel the oldest portions of I-70 in eastern Kansas, you will see that the overpasses are nearly 20' high--maximum normal commercial truck height is 13'6". The extra height was needed to clear a Titan missile on a truck. That idea was abandoned long ago, and most Interstate overpasses are now just high enough to clear standard semis.

You also should know (as I have posted before) that the Interstate highway concept was borrowed from the German Autobahn--which was the brainchild of that paper-hanging, Nationalist SOCIALIST, Fascist SOB named Adolph Hitler. I submit that the American Interstate system is the biggest experiment in state socialism the world has ever seen outside of the Soviet Union--and will eventually collapse and fail every bit as miserably. (As an aside, Hitler had the same idea about using the Autobahns for defense highways during WW II--it worked sort of OK until the Allies so disrupted Germany's oil supply that there was no fuel for highway transport. By the latter year or two of WW II, the Autobahns were useless, both as a mode of military transportation and for civilian transport use. Unlike the Autobahns, the railroads, despite being mercilessly attacked, actually remained of strategic value to Germany until the end of the war.)

If you want to read some good books that outline how we got hoodwinked by the highway lobby into squandering massive amounts of resources on this mess of a transportation system, read the following books:

Getting There: The Epic Struggle between Road and Rail in the American Century by Stephen Goddard

Asphalt Nation: How the Automobile Took Over America and How We Can Take It Back by Jane Holtz Kay

There is no "sensitive" benign way to build a 4-lane highway through any landscape, especially the canyons and passes of the Colorado Rocky Mountains. Two lanes are bad enough. On the other hand, rail lines have a much smaller footprint and impact, and can carry much greater tonnage and density efficiently--not to mention using while about 30%-40% less fuel. And there ALREADY is a railroad, currently mothballed for a good chunk of its length, that follows the US 50-US 24 corridor from Pueblo to Grand Junction.

Sorry to veer off-topic here, but I flat get sick of people who are complete one-dimensional thinkers when it comes to transportation. It proves how brainwashed they are.

[DOUBLE H]

I hadn't gone through all these posts until a while ago. I think I better speak up on this.

The reason why I said that the 4 lane construction took long enough is because it DID! Don't think for a second that I'm all for 4 lane construction because I'm NOT! The road was tore up for a long time, as funding was obviously a big problem when they started the construction in the late 80's.

It was at that time when Montrose changed for the worse. Target, Home Depot, and other huge big box retailers ruined that end of the Uncompahgre. If they were going to put that stuff in Montrose, they should have put it east of town where Gibson's used to be. It was a more logical fit, the space was already there, and those businesses should have been put there. Hwy 50 south of Starvin' Arvin's restaurant is pure aggravation.

I don't know why industry could not have been located near the north end of town if it had to come at all. I'm guessing the developers were thinking, "Ew, that part of town looks so industrial and the south end of town looks so PRETTY! It has all those mountains and it has all those mesas and plateaus and the river south of town is so coool! Let's build!