Pueblo isn't all that great... (Denver, Colorado Springs: school district, utilities, closing)

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by NW Crow

Looked and looked for a direct link to that interview. Haven't find one yet. Not thru the general website, its search tool or Google. Any help?

Its in the link I provided....

[NW Crow]

Didnt see it before but found it now under radio / podcasts. Busy page. Strange not accessible by search. Listening now.


Baseball development "still possible", "would need to be restructured". Which could mean land sold thru normal process and probably for more.


Takeover Black Hills Energy: "would lower costs by eliminating what goes to profit". Well yeah after you pay for the assets and interest on financing the acquisition that produces the profits. Can Pueblo run as effectively and efficiently as BH? Open question.






Generally sounded fine but it was mostly descriptive. Little in the way of actions taken or immediately on horizon (beyond the level of discussions).


Zero mention of crime problem or new approaches at crime fighting.

[Let's Go Here]

I think Gradisar's head is in the right place, especially in regards to the having all of the utilities controlled on a local level.

A strong mayor form of government was a smart move for Pueblo given all of the infighting and lack of economic growth that have been prevalent over the last 20+ years.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by Let's Go Here

I think Gradisar's head is in the right place, especially in regards to the having all of the utilities controlled on a local level.

A strong mayor form of government was a smart move for Pueblo given all of the infighting and lack of economic growth that have been prevalent over the last 20+ years.

I could not agree more. It feels like “morning in Pueblo”...

[NW Crow]

The part I municipal electric utility study is very basic. It says you'd probably spend $250-350 million to buy the distribution assets from Black Hills to just serve the city and perhaps save rate payers $160 million over 20 years if all goes according to expectations. So the total outlays (rate overlays and / or new taxes) will probably exceed total projected savings for 30-45 years. After that you might have less outlays. Assuming you can keep maintenance costs under control. Still have to go out and purchase power as a non-producer.


Study mentioned protracted legal fight for Boulder trying to do same thing.


I doubt this would be a top priority to me in the near term. Are the rest of Pueblo's needs & desire so under control and perfected that the City has time to undertake a new enterprise that it doesn't have experience with? I'd lean toward NO. But as Mayor he'll have to decide whether to spend hundreds of thousands on additional studies, perhaps many times that in litigation and commit to at least a quarter billion in acquisition spending. That will quite a test of leadership. His answer in the interview was basically: it is under study and might work. A "final answer" is probably at less year maybe several years away.

[tommyp1]

Originally Posted by NW Crow

The part I municipal electric utility study is very basic. It says you'd probably spend $250-350 million to buy the distribution assets from Black Hills to just serve the city and perhaps save rate payers $160 million over 20 years if all goes according to expectations. So the total outlays (rate overlays and / or new taxes) will probably exceed total projected savings for 30-45 years. After that you might have less outlays. Assuming you can keep maintenance costs under control. Still have to go out and purchase power as a non-producer.


Study mentioned protracted legal fight for Boulder trying to do same thing.


I doubt this would be a top priority to me in the near term. Are the rest of Pueblo's needs & desire so under control and perfected that the City has time to undertake a new enterprise that it doesn't have experience with? I'd lean toward NO. But as Mayor he'll have to decide whether to spend hundreds of thousands on additional studies, perhaps many times that in litigation and commit to at least a quarter billion in acquisition spending. That will quite a test of leadership. His answer in the interview was basically: it is under study and might work. A "final answer" is probably at less year maybe several years away.

From both posts above: I like your intelligence. A good summary of the link (ie, krdo.com/radio): "mostly descriptive" VS "actions taken" which translates IMO to blather and/or lets "wait and see" while we (might) spend precious dollars for studies.

Yes "rate overlays" and "new taxes" need to be spread "across the board" (equal) in a fledgling city like Pueblo after your main question is answered: "Are the rest of Pueblo's needs and desire so under control and perfected....?"

Maybe the new mayor needs some "town-hall" meetings feedback before wasteful dollars on city planning is undertaken?

An author I'm reading pretty much defines politicians since the days of Reagan: "totally self-interested." ALL the People matter....not just 'the few.'

[NW Crow]

Should power supply be locally owned and controlled? Alot of people would say "yes". If the question was should it have been done this way 50-125 years ago I'd probably say yes. But should the electric distribution only system be bought after the fact from a seller forced against their will to sell? That is what is mainly being studied.


The electric distribution system would be owned by the city and probably never resold unless they totally blow operating it. Does every man, woman, child and business want to buy an asset over at least 20 years at about at least $7 per month per person per month (if businesses pay about half the total cost & interest) where their only return is a promised couple of bucks per person per month savings on their electric bill? Or over time probably about $6,000 for a family of four. This quick, rough math may not be precisely right but it is basically what is being studied and what the strong Mayor is interested in but hasn't endorsed yet to my understanding. If the people want to try to do it, they can try. No guarantee it happens, in timely manner or at stated costs and savings. Based on history do you trust city and this new Mayor to buy and run a new business? Not my decision but that is the way I'd frame it rather than say it is a way to save money by eliminating profit as the Mayor did in this interview. That was not the complete story and that would concern me. But Pueblo sort it out. If you are going to live in Pueblo for 30-45 more years or are thinking about your children and children's children it may be reasonable to say yes. If you want to buy the city a company and buy its promise of good performance. Or you might not like, want or trust this deal.


If power distribution model evolves (like local solar on rooftops) the current power distribution system could depreciate, be competed against or become obsolete. It could also just fall apart faster if not properly maintained. Anything the city has failed to maintain or operate well??

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by NW Crow

The part I municipal electric utility study is very basic. It says you'd probably spend $250-350 million to buy the distribution assets from Black Hills to just serve the city and perhaps save rate payers $160 million over 20 years if all goes according to expectations. So the total outlays (rate overlays and / or new taxes) will probably exceed total projected savings for 30-45 years. After that you might have less outlays. Assuming you can keep maintenance costs under control. Still have to go out and purchase power as a non-producer.

You'd have to see how well Black Hills has maintained the distribution infrastructure- is there a lot of deferred maintenance that you'd be absorbing as well. Transmission would also be an issue along with purchase power. You'd have to either lease transmission rights from Black Hills on their lines, get into the transmission business, or lease from another transmission provider. Does Pueblo go into a PPA with Black Hills, Xcel, CSP, a Tri-State member, etc. or try and contract with a new merchant plant built just for Pueblo?

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by NW Crow

City / county merger has been tried in some areas. I'd say for the good where I was raised. I also helped merge the city and county planning departments in the place I went to college and participated in local politics for my early adult years. I'd be for some county / county mergers, though it seems very unlikely.....

Agree about merging cities and counties. I've griped all over the web about the excessive number of "counties" we have here in the USA, something like 3,142 of them, plus cities. It's NUTS. Colorado has 64 counties. It's NUTS. We could get that down to 20 and not miss a beat now that there are good roads and telecommunications; neither of which we had at statehood. Be so nice to do away with FORTY FOUR sets of county government overhead, while merging police, fire, schools, and other government services to have more workers and less administrators.

Colorado Springs, Manitou Springs, Fountain, Security, Monument, Green Mountain Falls, Woodland Park, et al, plus El Paso County and Teller County could merge today into one entity (with one set of elected types, one set of laws, one tax rate, one school district) and no one would know the difference; many more easy mergers exist, just look at the map. IMO the big "MSA" areas should each be their own single county, which means there'd be one county for all of the Denver metro area; it can be done, it can be managed just fine. Merge all the damned school districts in El Paso County into one as well, who needs TWENTY school districts? It's NUTS.

Speaking of the electric utility in Pueblo (or elsewhere) these are regulated public utilities, i.e., government-approved monopolies allowed to make a set profit. COLO SPGS has one city-owned utility firm which I enjoyed for 11 years at rates that were/are a good 20% cheaper than Black Hills in Pueblo. It's a serious business but it isn't rocket science and it can be run and managed just fine as a municipal operation. As long as these are regulated monopolies they might as well be city-owned and avoid paying extra for the corporate profit factor and dividend payouts. It should lower the rates the people pay for electric service in Pueblo but the devil is in the details. If everyone puts solar on their homes they could get rid of BKH.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

Speaking of the electric utility in Pueblo (or elsewhere) these are regulated public utilities, i.e., government-approved monopolies allowed to make a set profit. COLO SPGS has one city-owned utility firm which I enjoyed for 11 years at rates that were/are a good 20% cheaper than Black Hills in Pueblo. It's a serious business but it isn't rocket science and it can be run and managed just fine as a municipal operation. As long as these are regulated monopolies they might as well be city-owned and avoid paying extra for the corporate profit factor and dividend payouts. It should lower the rates the people pay for electric service in Pueblo but the devil is in the details. If everyone puts solar on their homes they could get rid of BKH.

Pueblo wouldn't own the generation or transmission which would result in the profit factor just moving up the chain. But it should force some competition to service the load that a municipal distributor would offer.

Unless Pueblo does something dumb like join Tri-State.....