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I guess its dollars and cents not to mention cultural.. I dont know why Richland Mall ever built those massive parking garages. I guess the amount of square footage that it had required a certain number of spaces. I dont think.. even at its peak.. that those garages ever were full.. which adds to the eerie nature because nobody is in them..so one can conclude that no one will hear you scream. There was a nice plan to build condos/apartments on top of RM.. I guess that got scuttled too.. At the end of the day.. if they dont take down the Mall.. (which may be unlikely) they should take down all or a major part of the garage since it hides the mall from Forest Drive/Beltline. not to mention could be valuable outparcel land for smaller stores.
I have read reams of comments from The State newspaper decrying the dangers of parking garages downtown though I am not sure there are actual crime stats to support everyones fear of them..But perceptions is reality for some.
The hell hounds howled when this last garage was built on the corner of Taylor and Sumter... they are pacing back and forth in their cages with their tongues waging waiting for the day that a young woman is attacked or raped by a homeless urine drenched brute who has been laying in wait for this very moment to seize her as she walks to Mast General via the alley..According to their predictions.. its not a question of IF but WHEN.. sad but thats the mindset we live with
Last edited by Woodlands; 09-10-2012 at 01:24 PM..
I guess its dollars and cents not to mention cultural.. I dont know why Richland Mall ever built those massive parking garages. I guess the amount of square footage that it had required a certain number of spaces. I dont think.. even at its peak.. that those garages ever were full.. which adds to the eerie nature because nobody is in them..so one can conclude that no one will hear you scream. There was a nice plan to build condos/apartments on top of RM.. I guess that got scuttled too.. At the end of the day.. if they dont take down the Mall.. (which may be unlikely) they should take down all or a major part of the garage since it hides the mall from Forest Drive/Beltline. not to mention could be valuable outparcel land for smaller stores.
I have read reams of comments from The State newspaper decrying the dangers of parking garages downtown though I am not sure there are actual crime stats to support everyones fear of them..But perceptions is reality for some.
The hell hounds howled when this last garage was built on the corner of Taylor and Sumter... they are pacing back and forth in their cages with their tongues waging waiting for the day that a young woman is attacked or raped by a homeless urine drenched brute who has been laying in wait for this very moment to seize her as she walks to Mast General via the alley..According to their predictions.. its not a question of IF but WHEN.. sad but thats the mindset we live with
Yeah the people that comment on the newspaper are some of the most close-minded people I have ever seen. This is a sad thing to think about, but of course eventually someone will be harmed in that parking garage. I doubt for the decades that it is up there will never be a crime. But those people celebrate their large parking lots in the suburbs when there have been numerous crimes occurring there. I'm sure most shopping centers have had numerous crimes occurring in them, even in the best parts of town.
Maybe the issue isn't parking lots versus parking garages and is more the fact that when there is an area that people are mostly vacant from, crime is more likely to occur. Maybe it's just high concentrations of parking regardless of form is a magnet for crimes of opportunity?
I don't like the placement of the RM garage but it would be foolish and short sided to tear it down. Space is at a premium there and will only become more valuable with time. They should however make the front sides of the parking garage more attractive. And hopefully they go ahead with updated signage at RM.
I guess its dollars and cents not to mention cultural.. I dont know why Richland Mall ever built those massive parking garages. I guess the amount of square footage that it had required a certain number of spaces. I dont think.. even at its peak.. that those garages ever were full.. which adds to the eerie nature because nobody is in them..so one can conclude that no one will hear you scream. There was a nice plan to build condos/apartments on top of RM.. I guess that got scuttled too.. At the end of the day.. if they dont take down the Mall.. (which may be unlikely) they should take down all or a major part of the garage since it hides the mall from Forest Drive/Beltline. not to mention could be valuable outparcel land for smaller stores.
I have read reams of comments from The State newspaper decrying the dangers of parking garages downtown though I am not sure there are actual crime stats to support everyones fear of them..But perceptions is reality for some.
The hell hounds howled when this last garage was built on the corner of Taylor and Sumter... they are pacing back and forth in their cages with their tongues waging waiting for the day that a young woman is attacked or raped by a homeless urine drenched brute who has been laying in wait for this very moment to seize her as she walks to Mast General via the alley..According to their predictions.. its not a question of IF but WHEN.. sad but thats the mindset we live with
I am not sure why anyone would give the slightest bit of credibility to anything written in a newspaper comment section. That goes for The State, The Charlotte Observer, The Greenville News, The Post & Courier etc........not sure why you would even bring that up. It is irrelevant.
As for the parking deck, it is not a big deal. Parking decks are being built at shopping centers. They are much more common to see in areas with a tight footprint or higher land values. The parking decks around SouthPark have not deterred any shoppers. The parking decks at Midtown, Piedmont Town Center, or parking on the roof at Lowes Southend have not deterred any shoppers. On the Greenville thread, there is a comment about a new 800 space garage at Magnolia Park. Granted, this project has been a disaster due to the developer and bad advice from professional contractors but, it seems to be getting traction.
As for RM, this is tough. It would be very expensive to tear down and build a new concept, I doubt those numbers would work. More likely, the developer needs to add other elements to the office/retail that already exist. Apartments could be an option or maybe even an apartment/hotel mid rise in the 10 story range. The property needs to generate more income and foot traffic to attract tenants and/or allow the developer to offer cheaper rent to attract tenants. The demographics in the area are terrific and would support a good amount of retail, not on the SouthPark scale but, maybe a small version of Haywood.
I am not sure why anyone would give the slightest bit of credibility to anything written in a newspaper comment section. That goes for The State, The Charlotte Observer, The Greenville News, The Post & Courier etc........not sure why you would even bring that up. It is irrelevant.
As for the parking deck, it is not a big deal. Parking decks are being built at shopping centers. They are much more common to see in areas with a tight footprint or higher land values. The parking decks around SouthPark have not deterred any shoppers. The parking decks at Midtown, Piedmont Town Center, or parking on the roof at Lowes Southend have not deterred any shoppers. On the Greenville thread, there is a comment about a new 800 space garage at Magnolia Park. Granted, this project has been a disaster due to the developer and bad advice from professional contractors but, it seems to be getting traction.
As for RM, this is tough. It would be very expensive to tear down and build a new concept, I doubt those numbers would work. More likely, the developer needs to add other elements to the office/retail that already exist. Apartments could be an option or maybe even an apartment/hotel mid rise in the 10 story range. The property needs to generate more income and foot traffic to attract tenants and/or allow the developer to offer cheaper rent to attract tenants. The demographics in the area are terrific and would support a good amount of retail, not on the SouthPark scale but, maybe a small version of Haywood.
Exactly - the main problem with Richland Mall is that the population base in close proximity to the mall is older and older people don't show as much as younger people. The income is there and the mix at Trenholm Plaza is better for the surrounding population. When Richland was first redeveloped it was relatively successful until Hooker Properties (The Australian Company that owned the mall and Bonwit Teller) went bankrupt.
I am not sure why anyone would give the slightest bit of credibility to anything written in a newspaper comment section. That goes for The State, The Charlotte Observer, The Greenville News, The Post & Courier etc........not sure why you would even bring that up. It is irrelevant.
As for the parking deck, it is not a big deal. Parking decks are being built at shopping centers. They are much more common to see in areas with a tight footprint or higher land values. The parking decks around SouthPark have not deterred any shoppers. The parking decks at Midtown, Piedmont Town Center, or parking on the roof at Lowes Southend have not deterred any shoppers. On the Greenville thread, there is a comment about a new 800 space garage at Magnolia Park. Granted, this project has been a disaster due to the developer and bad advice from professional contractors but, it seems to be getting traction.
As for RM, this is tough. It would be very expensive to tear down and build a new concept, I doubt those numbers would work. More likely, the developer needs to add other elements to the office/retail that already exist. Apartments could be an option or maybe even an apartment/hotel mid rise in the 10 story range. The property needs to generate more income and foot traffic to attract tenants and/or allow the developer to offer cheaper rent to attract tenants. The demographics in the area are terrific and would support a good amount of retail, not on the SouthPark scale but, maybe a small version of Haywood.
Yes its true that a 'comment section' is not a Gallup Poll or by any means scientific.. it still reflects opinions for better or for worse. Those opinions COULD influence others that eventually lead to sterotypes. I say that to say 20 years before there was a online comment section...people wrote editorials and letters to the editor in hardcopy newspapers (as they still do today)..
Many of these same people opined pages of articles why they would never set foot in downtown and they were upset that the Mayor and City Council would even consider spending one red cent "revitalizing" it. That opinion held for many years and many elected officials wouldnt raise a finger to fight against that opinion nor would they counter the steady stream of articles against it. When some came forth with ideas .......pitchforks were hoisted and people both in and outside of the city railed against what is now Finlay Park and burying railroads and power lines in what is now the Vista. Mayor Adams was run out of office.. in part..... because of this thought process though it was championed by his predecessor Mayor Kirkman Finlay. Mayor Adams annexed the Columbiana Center for the tax revenue which outraged Lexington County and the Town of Irmo since it was the first time the City Limits intruded into that area. Some suburbanites tried to punish the City and put it in a strangle hold by refusing to annex because they felt that if they were to pay higher taxes they didnt want it to support the revitalization of THAT part of town...So no, I wouldnt let the online comment section guide my life decisions to do and not to do things and today we have a more enlighten electorate...my only point it that to some degree these comment sections, in the proper context could matter.....even on this board people offer opinions/thoughts that influence others decisions...
Last edited by Woodlands; 09-11-2012 at 07:20 AM..
It seems everyone is hinting toward what I see in Charlotte.
At the South Park Mall it seems to be working. The mall is surrounded by a square of roads. Across Sharon Rd. to the East are apartments and a beautiful grocery store hidden from mall view but well known to local residents. On the north side is a series of strip mall type (some upscale) stores with well landscaped and comfortable walking areas. On the west side are hotels very well laid out so traffic isn't snarled at any time of the day. On the south side you have a gas station and small strip mall of store including a McDonald's. All of these areas are well landscaped and nothing is hideous to look at. They restrict sign usage enough to keep it a residential living area for people who want to live and walk to most of the stores without too much effort.
I don't know if that would work in Columbia or not due to income levels and population, but I would enjoy visiting that type of shopping area down here. I think Harbison Mall tried to do something similar due the engineering up against the interstate was a bad location.
By location and if you could buy up all the property around and behind it, the old Columbia Mall on Two Notch would be a perfect place to recreate a similar design. Understand this doesn't take into consideration the current limitation of the economy, but if you had the venture capital to invest and could get the land, wow! Having it so close to I-277 & I-77 would be a long-term investors dream for businesses and business people wanting easy access to downtown Columbia and a quick Charlotte/Charleston takeoff point. No malfunction junction (I-20 & I-26) to worry about!
In retrospect, I wish I had used my connections to do it myself back then. Another missed opportunity, but I had others I did successfully engage in. Not enough time to do them all.
Between 15-20 years ago, before I lived in the Carolinas, Columbia was just a drive through for me. Maybe I would get gas but never go more than a quarter mile off I-77 or I-26. One time I made a point to look up the malls to take a look see. First was Harbison, I thought it was a nice little mall. Too small for any real business use but cute for the area. Then I went to Columbia Mall. Awesome location, pathetic attempt by the original developer to utilize it, depressed area. Decker Road was a nightmare to drive through at night. Lock your doors, roll up your windows and keep moving. Richland Mall was my last stop. All I could think was, who the hell designed this mess of a building. Such potential wasted. Until I saw some of the stores, I thought the whole building was just a parking garage.
Before you go off on me, remember it was an outsiders first look at Columbia. I didn't even go downtown until years later.
Yes its true that a 'comment section' is not a Gallup Poll or by any means scientific.. it still reflects opinions for better or for worse. Those opinions COULD influence others that eventually lead to sterotypes. I say that to say 20 years before there was a online comment section...people wrote editorials and letters to the editor in hardcopy newspapers (as they still do today)..
Many of these same people opined pages of articles why they would never set foot in downtown and they were upset that the Mayor and City Council would even consider spending one red cent "revitalizing" it. That opinion held for many years and many elected officials wouldnt raise a finger to fight against that opinion nor would they counter the steady stream of articles against it. When some came forth with ideas .......pitchforks were hoisted and people both in and outside of the city railed against what is now Finlay Park and burying railroads and power lines in what is now the Vista. Mayor Adams was run out of office.. in part..... because of this thought process though it was championed by his predecessor Mayor Kirkman Finlay. Mayor Adams annexed the Columbiana Center for the tax revenue which outraged Lexington County and the Town of Irmo since it was the first time the City Limits intruded into that area. Some suburbanites tried to punish the City and put it in a strangle hold by refusing to annex because they felt that if they were to pay higher taxes they didnt want it to support the revitalization of THAT part of town...So no, I wouldnt let the online comment section guide my life decisions to do and not to do things and today we have a more enlighten electorate...my only point it that to some degree these comment sections, in the proper context could matter.....even on this board people offer opinions/thoughts that influence others decisions...
Wood, here is why I think the comments are irrelevant. Frist, unlike comments to the editor, you do not know who is speaking. Second, in the comment section, you don't know where people live. There are folks from other cities that hate Columbia who spend time on the comment sections writing crap just because they have too much time and some warped agenda against Columbia or any city for that matter. These folks just like to stir up a negative attitude towards the city. Third, there are serial posters in every city who pretend to be speaking for the masses but are just unhappy people. For example, if you read a Charlotte Observer article about light rail, you would think the project is a complete failure by reading the comment sections. Nothing could be further from the truth. Same goes for the arena where the DNC was just held. There is a small population of people who are still fighting the arena battle years later. By reading these comments, you would think the arena sits empty 360 days per year. In reality, without the arena, the city would never have had a chance at the DNC. When Southpark was going through the rezoning process prior the last renovation, a small group of neighbors were very vocal in opposing the mall. Because of these serial posters who comment negatively about everything, most folks understand that this group are just talking and hoping someone listens. In other words, noone takes the comments section seriously because it has become a sound board for a small number of people who will complain about everything. If I read correctly, someone made negative comments about parking decks. While interesting, these folks must live in a town of 500. Parking decks are a way of life in any city that is of a decent size. Increasingly, infill developments require parking decks to be successful due to size and land restrictions. As people move back towards cities over the next decade, this pace will accelerate regardless of what someone is posting on The State's comment section who lives in Greenville.
Yeah.. I can see quite a few older shopping malls having to reinvent themselves or become mothballed. Decker Mall is another prime example of a mall reinvented.. though as a County Facility (which doesnt help the tax base) but it could spur development of restaurants and other businesses to service people that are visiting or that work in the facility. Bush River is now a Wal Mart and a few spin offs. The best example in Columbia though is Woodhill Mall.. which now has a Target as an Anchor and a variety of other businesses and appears to be thriving.I dont think banks are lending for brand new shopping centers anymore so some of these old Centers hopefully can get a new LEASE on life.....pun intended
I'm hearing rumors that T.G.I. Friday's is closing March 25th.
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Just curious
