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I can't think of any city where "downtown" is synonymous with its CBD.
Why does this matter? I am not sure where this started but, I am not sure it is relevant to Whole Foods.
Thanks for answering my question Mutiny and Cdata. I thought the statement made by Edens was interesting. There have been many discussions On this board about retailers lack of development in Columbia. This story starts to shed light on why. Retailers have always been an interesting group and seem to operate in another world which is why I can never justify investing in those companies.
Anyway, it looks like Columbia will start to get stores that have been absent. I still don't understand why a store like Whole Foods has passed over Charlotte with a metro over 2m and high incomes and Columbia with a metro of 800k. Maybe it is something as simple as how the CEO feels.
With Whole Foods's CEO that seems to be the case anyway. BTW, I don't remember if I've mentioned it, but the building that WF's shadow (TJ's) is rumored to be moving into has a demolition debris bin out front now. There's still no 'coming soon' sign, though.
My partner brings up a good point related to the Edens spokesman's statement. Yesterday we were in Publix and I just happened to see an atlas of South Carolina with city maps. The mile legends were the same length for each city map. We were shocked at how huge downtown Columbia is compared to other SC cities' downtowns, even when you don't consider the Devine Street corridor, yet it's not as spread out as you might think in terms of density. Also, from the air you can see the network of very busy roadways and avenues that make up the huge checkerboard pattern. They could see the feng shui at once from the air, but at ground level you have to know where you are by being familiar with the area to get the same effect. They should be able to tell from census tracts where the wealth is. I guess seeing what they wanted to see in terms of location was just easier from the sky. Good thinking on Edens' part.
Thats interesting.. but does make alot of sense. It seems like Columbia.. particuliarly along some of its major corridors is somewhat deceiving. Along corridors such as Forest Drive, Devine Street/Garners Ferry, Broad River, and to some degree North Main Street.. as you follow them out from the City Center... they tend to become residential interspersed with a low density commercial development and/or housing that has been converted into office or commercial space . Then several miles out you run into a major commercial node.. such as the case along Devine Street as it runs down into Garners Ferry and to a certain extent Taylor Street as it transitions into Forest Drive, and River Drive as it becomes Broad River Road. Just off of these streets as you..Cdata... said you have older interburban residential neighborhoods that are fairly 'dense' but you dont get that sense looking at them from these corridors until you get up in them or look at them from the air. Other SC cities have similar characteristics. It seems to defy the typical pattern of some southern cities where there is continguous development from the "urban" commercial center to the "suburban" commercial center along their major corridors.
The only major city road that I can think of that is commercially "urban" from city on through the suburbs is Two Notch Road..even then it has a few gaps but its history as US 1 is the reason for its commercial growth....and of course the opposite end via Cayce and Lexington County.
Last edited by Woodlands; 04-30-2012 at 07:23 AM..
You do realize that a grid does not equal "urban"/one's downtown, right?
I think Corgi was talking about downtown as originally planned, which does indeed cover a good bit of territory--close to being as large as uptown Charlotte in that sense.
I know plenty of places where "downtown" means CBD. I also know places where it just means the city, proper. Heck, sometimes it means both of those things in the same place. And a lot of it depends on where you are. If you live in the burbs, "downtown" just means "town". If you already live in town, "downtown" means the place where the big buildings and parking meters are.
Columbia's CBD is the 27-block area bounded by Gervais, Assembly, Marion and Elmwood and of course includes Main. That's relatively quite a small area within the original grid.
I think Corgi was talking about downtown as originally planned, which does indeed cover a good bit of territory--close to being as large as uptown Charlotte in that sense.
My only point is that urban areas can extend past moments where the grid deteriorates. Therefore a grid does not indicate urban, and a more organic and vernacularly-based street layout does not indicate something is non-urban.
I know plenty of places where "downtown" means CBD.
I probably should have qualified my statement with a reference to size. I can think of no principal city where this applies that is the same size or larger as one of South Carolina's big three metros. There might be some, but I haven't visited them.
I think Corgi was talking about downtown as originally planned, which does indeed cover a good bit of territory--close to being as large as uptown Charlotte in that sense.
Columbia does have a large downtown. For this reason, I think that is why there are pockets of development like 5 Points, The Vista, Main St, The University and the State Buildings. In some respects it is great, in others, it presents challenges in creating an environment that mimics a town. For this reason, Columbia will follow a development pattern that will be very different from Charleston or Greenville. I agree, the footprint of Columbia is similar in size to Charlotte.
As for Whole Foods, this is a great development for Devine St. It almost creates a bookend for development. Devine should see some nice projects back towards downtown.
My only point is that urban areas can extend past moments where the grid deteriorates. Therefore a grid does not indicate urban, and a more organic and vernacularly-based street layout does not indicate something is non-urban.
This is true, but I have no clue how this was necessarily relevant to Corgi's statement. He only commented on recognizing how much ground downtown Columbia covered by looking at a map. The context of the comment was the layout of central Columbia, not the built form.
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