[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by brien51

Yes, we americans are special from the rest of the world. There would be no modern world as we know it if it wasn't for the Americans participation, and winning, in WWII. If this wern't true, and Americans weren't special, there would be no Jews on this planet, Americans would likely be speaking German, and minorities and homosexuals would be jailed, experimented upon, and then likely gassed to death. This would be YOUR world because if the Americans did not take up arms against the Axis, the Allies minus the US, would have certainly lost the war against Hitler and Hirohito. We would not even be here discussing and writing about the freedom of attending higher education institutions.

So don't come round my door, and even remotely suggest that Americans aren't special, unless you consider saving the world from the Nazis and the Imperialist Japanese in 1945 an every day run of the mill job. My God, we can't even insist upon Congress to decide if the US will go to war anymore. This nation has been sunk into the pitiful chasm of international Progressive apologetic nonsense, and you seem to be brainwashed by it. This is why it makes no sense to you.

Wake up. Americans are special and anyone who denies it are either its enemies or just plain ignorant of World History.

KidYankee:
I'm sorry, what were you saying about this NOT being about American exceptionalism again?

And Brien:
The US knew Jews were being exterminated in mass as early as 1938. We didn't get in to the war until 1942 after we were attacked. I'm not so sure we should be held in such high esteem for saving the Jewish people when we let them be systematically exterminated for four years.

[Beeker2211]

Lol Pulse Opinion.

But hate to say it but this lady sounded like she upset a lot in the audience:

"Most of the crowd stood and applauded. The cheering continued for 24 seconds."

For a lot of the kids, they grew up here. Not their fault their parents couldn't make a living where they were. I don't see how offering them in-state tuition makes it so they get a leg up on citizens, especially because all students to the Universities have to go through the same process. If they aren't up to snuff they aren't going to get in. Legacy admittance is a muchhhh bigger problem allowing less deserving students into higher education.

As for that lady: No. It wasn't deindustrialastion of the country. No. It wasn't a political machine that was super corrupt. No. It wasn't mortgage underwriting standards. No. It wasn't a regressive tax code federally for 30 years. No. It wasn't anti-urban policies in the state and federal government. No. It wasn't race baiting that helped further "white flight" (I know I know that wasn't the only reason for the flight, but it didn't help). No. It's not true that illegals actually pay more into the system than they get out. It's also a bit funny because a huge portion of the immigrant population there is legal (many are from PR. aka American citizens). Free speech is a two way road, she brought vitriol to the table and that's what she got back. Should the Governor have acted differently? Probably. But sometimes uneducated and ignorant statements posed in that manner shouldn't be met with niceties.

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by JViello

There is a process to become a citizen FOR A REASON.

I love how nobody responded to this. Liberals tend to think the law can be broken for what THEY believe is "right".

I want the illegals to have a wonderful education, and a fantastic life. But why should we as Americans foot the bill?

[brien51]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

KidYankee:
I'm sorry, what were you saying about this NOT being about American exceptionalism again?

And Brien:
The US knew Jews were being exterminated in mass as early as 1938. We didn't get in to the war until 1942 after we were attacked. I'm not so sure we should be held in such high esteem for saving the Jewish people when we let them be systematically exterminated for four years.

You missed the entire point unless you cherry picked the post. WHEN the US got involved doesn't matter. What matters is the US IS SPECIAL because the US won the war which would have certainly been lost without the US participation. This is why the US is special. If you live in the free world, you owe it to the particiaption of the US in WWII. Otherwise, you would be "living" under the bootheel of the thousand year Reich.

This is what will always make the US SPECIAL

[goldenband]

By that standard, the USSR was also pretty "special"!

Look, your argument is silly, full stop. If you want to say that the United States is special, say it's because of the Constitution, because of the "melting pot" ideal, or any number of other potentially viable reasons. But winning a war doesn't make a country "special", it makes it victorious.

[Beeker2211]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

I love how nobody responded to this. Liberals tend to think the law can be broken for what THEY believe is "right".

I want the illegals to have a wonderful education, and a fantastic life. But why should we as Americans foot the bill?

I'll respond. Applying for citizenship to the US is insane. There have been efforts to reform the system recently though.

Even that said, the main argument is that the wrong people are prosecuted unduly, that the burden of legal responsibility falls too heavily on the commoners and not those benefiting from the arrangement. Want to stop illegal immigration? Crack down, and crack down hard, on major corporations that hire illegals en masse. If the companies are found to be have recruited workers in foreign countries or used recruiting services that provided the same effect have their corporate boards face severe jail time. Rounding up workers is ineffective and only treats a symptom of the problem. It's about wage suppression and intimidation.

And I'll repeat: if it weren't for illegals pumping so much into the coffers at various levels, everyone would have to pay more. At least the stupid CBO says so.

~Cheers

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

I love how nobody responded to this. Liberals tend to think the law can be broken for what THEY believe is "right".

I want the illegals to have a wonderful education, and a fantastic life. But why should we as Americans foot the bill?

Again, what I am advocating is an addition to the process which gives these good students who have done everything they are supposed to do a legal path to citizenship.

The Dream Act provides a new, legal path to citizenship that makes sense. These people are contributors.

By the way, if you wanted to go after those who employee undocumented workers in a serious way I'd be for that too. Although, I probably wouldn't be thrilled at paying $3 a pound for Apples.

[goldenband]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

I love how nobody responded to this. Liberals tend to think the law can be broken for what THEY believe is "right".

Last time I checked, most people on both sides of the political spectrum thought this way. It's a conversation as old as history:

Originally Posted by Robert Bolt

William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!

So c'mon, we don't need another poster who uses that kind of rhetoric.

[Beeker2211]

Originally Posted by goldenband

By that standard, the USSR was also pretty "special"!

Actually, the USSR was pretty special. From a peasant nation to world powerhouse in 20 years. A lot of what they did was stupid and too centralised (and way too fast... looking at you their farming planning). While I don't like what the USSR stood for, or what they did to their own people, but painting it as a monolith of awfulness really degrades the actual history. Like everything it had its' good and bad, often on extreme ends on both.

~Cheers

[brien51]

Originally Posted by goldenband

By that standard, the USSR was also pretty "special"!

Look, your argument is silly, full stop. If you want to say that the United States is special, say it's because of the Constitution, because of the "melting pot" ideal, or any number of other potentially viable reasons. But winning a war doesn't make a country "special", it makes it victorious.

Silly? Tell that to millions who died to keep the world free in the mid twentieth century. If anyone is "silly" and vacuous here, it isn't me...

We all know what the US stands for here. It is a given. Too bad the Congress doesn't adhere to the Constitution.

The USSR didn't win the war. The US did for the Allies, and if it wasn't for the US, there would be no free world today. So if you don't think that is special, then so be it. That's your opinion. But the FACT is if the US didn't participate in the war, then Europe would have been lost to the Nazis and so would all of Asia to Imperialist Japan.

So in this case, victory is special.

btw, At the close of WWII, the US confisgated Werner Von Braun who had developed the V-1 and V-2 self guided rockets, which would have led to the total devastation of the Soviet Union. Furthermore, the Nazis were already working on nuclear warheads, so if it wasn't for the US stepping in, winning the European theater, then Von Braun and the Nazis would have likely been successful in developing the first nuclear self guided warhead. We got to Von Braun before the Soviets did, and that, my friend, is indeed special.