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Oh good, so then you accept the scientific study that shows evidence that "committed" homosexual relationships are radically different from married couples in several key respects?
· relationship duration
· monogamy vs. promiscuity
· relationship commitment
· number of children being raised
· health risks
· rates of intimate partner violence
I figured you'd come around some day.
Sorry Jay but most of the homosexuals I know don't fit this pattern. This may have been true 30 years ago when it was less open and accepted but today homosexuals have just as good and healthy relationships as heterosexuals, maybe even better. Jay
You have to make lemonade here with the lemons you have just like you have to anywhere else. Maybe there's more opportunity here than some other places, and then again there's certainly less in some instances. I think just about anyone can have upward mobility here, but Connecticut just doesn't take you by the hand and makes it happen. It takes a lot of work on your own part.
Well, sorry to blow up a good rant, but the cities are not 95% "black". Not even close. Hartford, I believe is the highest in the 30% range last I checked. Not to say there is not an imbalance, and socioeconomic segregation because there is, it's just not some evil plan like your post suggests.
"blow up a good rant"? I don't understand what you mean here. There was no "rant" simply because racial distinctions were noted and questioned. This was an intelligent inquiry, requiring a mature response.
You don't appear to have the facts, so the inquiry presists. CT unfortunately suffers from a reputation as being incredibly racially segregated, suggesting that the "upward mobility" label may not apply equally to blacks. If you have more helpful insights based on actual facts, this would help shed some light on this.
"blow up a good rant"? I don't understand what you mean here. There was no "rant" simply because racial distinctions were noted and questioned. This was an intelligent inquiry, requiring a mature response.
You don't appear to have the facts, so the inquiry presists. CT unfortunately suffers from a reputation as being incredibly racially segregated, suggesting that the "upward mobility" label may not apply equally to blacks. If you have more helpful insights based on actual facts, this would help shed some light on this.
Gee, I thought you had no problem with homosexuals,
I don't, what makes you think I do? I was making a point with Mark about how we tend to only like the science that lines up with what we agree with.
For those asking for stats, okay...instead of collecting info and studies for the next hour, I'll just link to an article that outlines it, factually. Regardless of the source, facts are facts. Sometimes I read things on the Huffpo that are accurate, even though I can't stand the source.
Some excerpts to give those who won't actually read it fodder for a reply:
Male Homosexuals
Research indicates that the average male homosexual has hundreds of sex partners in his lifetime:
· The Dutch study of partnered homosexuals, which was published in the journal AIDS, found that men with a steady partner had an average of eight sexual partners per year.[12]
· Bell and Weinberg, in their classic study of male and female homosexuality, found that 43 percent of white male homosexuals had sex with 500 or more partners, with 28 percent having one thousand or more sex partners.[13]
· In their study of the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals published in the Journal of Sex Research, Paul Van de Ven et al. found that "the modal range for number of sexual partners ever [of homosexuals] was 101-500." In addition, 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent had between 501 and 1,000 partners. A further 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent reported having had more than one thousand lifetime sexual partners.[14]
· A survey conducted by the homosexual magazine Genre found that 24 percent of the respondents said they had had more than one hundred sexual partners in their lifetime. The magazine noted that several respondents suggested including a category of those who had more than one thousand sexual partners.[15]
"Commitment" in Male Homosexual Couples
Even in those homosexual relationships in which the partners consider themselves to be in a committed relationship, the meaning of "committed" or "monogamous" typically means something radically different than in heterosexual marriage.
· A Canadian study of homosexual men who had been in committed relationships lasting longer than one year found that only 25 percent of those interviewed reported being monogamous." According to study author Barry Adam, "Gay culture allows men to explore different...forms of relationships besides the monogamy coveted by heterosexuals."[16]
· The Handbook of Family Diversity reported a study in which "many self-described 'monogamous' couples reported an average of three to five partners in the past year. Blasband and Peplau (1985) observed a similar pattern."[17]
· In The Male Couple, authors David P. McWhirter and Andrew M. Mattison reported that, in a study of 156 males in homosexual relationships lasting from one to thirty-seven years:
Only seven couples have a totally exclusive sexual relationship, and these men all have been together for less than five years. Stated another way, all couples with a relationship lasting more than five years have incorporated some provision for outside sexual activity in their relationships.[18]
As the following chart shows, the extremely low rate of sexual fidelity among homosexual men dramatically contrasts with the high rate of fidelity among married heterosexuals...
INTIMATE PARTNER VIOLENCE Lesbian and Homosexual Relationships
Research indicates very high levels of violence in homosexual and lesbian relationships:
· A study in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence examined conflict and violence in lesbian relationships. The researchers found that 90 percent of the lesbians surveyed had been recipients of one or more acts of verbal aggression from their intimate partners during the year prior to this study, with 31 percent reporting one or more incidents of physical abuse.[46]
· In a survey of 1,099 lesbians, the Journal of Social Service Research found that slightly more than half of the lesbians reported that they had been abused by a female lover/partner. The researchers found that "the most frequently indicated forms of abuse were verbal/emotional/psychological abuse and combined physical-psychological abuse."[47]
· A study of lesbian couples reported in the Handbook of Family Development and Intervention "indicates that 54 percent had experienced 10 or more abusive incidents, 74 percent had experienced six or more incidents, 60 percent reported a pattern to the abuse, and 71 percent said it grew worse over time."[48]
· In their book Men Who Beat the Men Who Love Them: Battered Gay Men and Domestic Violence, Island and Letellier postulate that "the incidence of domestic violence among gay men is nearly double that in the heterosexual population."[49]
Gay and lesbian vs. other opposite-sex intimate partner relationships
Surveys conducted by the U.S. Department of Justice confirm that homosexual and lesbian relationships had a far greater incidence of domestic partner violence than opposite-sex relationships including cohabitation or marriage.
· The National Violence against Women Survey, sponsored by the National Institute of Justice, found that "same-sex cohabitants reported significantly more intimate partner violence than did opposite-sex cohabitants. Thirty-nine percent of the same-sex cohabitants reported being raped, physically assaulted, and/or stalked by a marital/cohabitating partner at some time in their lifetimes, compared to 21.7 percent of the opposite-sex cohabitants. Among men, the comparable figures are 23.1 percent and 7.4 percent."[50]
50. "Extent, Nature, and Consequences of Intimate Partner Violence," U.S. Department of Justice: Office of Justice Programs (July, 2000): 30.
Wow, this thread has really gone off the rails (in many directions!). I hate to help it continue, but I thought everyone might want to take a deep breath and enjoy the following link on logical fallacies. I found it rather hilarious, myself.
I don't, what makes you think I do? I was making a point with Mark about how we tend to only like the science that lines up with what we agree with.
For those asking for stats, okay...instead of collecting info and studies for the next hour, I'll just link to an article that outlines it, factually. Regardless of the source, facts are facts. Sometimes I read things on the Huffpo that are accurate, even though I can't stand the source.
Some excerpts to give those who won't actually read it fodder for a reply:
Male Homosexuals
Research indicates that the average male homosexual has hundreds of sex partners in his lifetime:
· The Dutch study of partnered homosexuals, which was published in the journal AIDS, found that men with a steady partner had an average of eight sexual partners per year.[12]
· Bell and Weinberg, in their classic study of male and female homosexuality, found that 43 percent of white male homosexuals had sex with 500 or more partners, with 28 percent having one thousand or more sex partners.[13]
· In their study of the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals published in the Journal of Sex Research, Paul Van de Ven et al. found that "the modal range for number of sexual partners ever [of homosexuals] was 101-500." In addition, 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent had between 501 and 1,000 partners. A further 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent reported having had more than one thousand lifetime sexual partners.[14]
· A survey conducted by the homosexual magazine Genre found that 24 percent of the respondents said they had had more than one hundred sexual partners in their lifetime. The magazine noted that several respondents suggested including a category of those who had more than one thousand sexual partners.[15]
"Commitment" in Male Homosexual Couples
Even in those homosexual relationships in which the partners consider themselves to be in a committed relationship, the meaning of "committed" or "monogamous" typically means something radically different than in heterosexual marriage.
· A Canadian study of homosexual men who had been in committed relationships lasting longer than one year found that only 25 percent of those interviewed reported being monogamous." According to study author Barry Adam, "Gay culture allows men to explore different...forms of relationships besides the monogamy coveted by heterosexuals."[16]
· The Handbook of Family Diversity reported a study in which "many self-described 'monogamous' couples reported an average of three to five partners in the past year. Blasband and Peplau (1985) observed a similar pattern."[17]
· In The Male Couple, authors David P. McWhirter and Andrew M. Mattison reported that, in a study of 156 males in homosexual relationships lasting from one to thirty-seven years:
Only seven couples have a totally exclusive sexual relationship, and these men all have been together for less than five years. Stated another way, all couples with a relationship lasting more than five years have incorporated some provision for outside sexual activity in their relationships.[18]
As the following chart shows, the extremely low rate of sexual fidelity among homosexual men dramatically contrasts with the high rate of fidelity among married heterosexuals...
INTIMATE PARTNER VIOLENCE Lesbian and Homosexual Relationships
Research indicates very high levels of violence in homosexual and lesbian relationships:
· A study in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence examined conflict and violence in lesbian relationships. The researchers found that 90 percent of the lesbians surveyed had been recipients of one or more acts of verbal aggression from their intimate partners during the year prior to this study, with 31 percent reporting one or more incidents of physical abuse.[46]
· In a survey of 1,099 lesbians, the Journal of Social Service Research found that slightly more than half of the lesbians reported that they had been abused by a female lover/partner. The researchers found that "the most frequently indicated forms of abuse were verbal/emotional/psychological abuse and combined physical-psychological abuse."[47]
· A study of lesbian couples reported in the Handbook of Family Development and Intervention "indicates that 54 percent had experienced 10 or more abusive incidents, 74 percent had experienced six or more incidents, 60 percent reported a pattern to the abuse, and 71 percent said it grew worse over time."[48]
· In their book Men Who Beat the Men Who Love Them: Battered Gay Men and Domestic Violence, Island and Letellier postulate that "the incidence of domestic violence among gay men is nearly double that in the heterosexual population."[49]
Gay and lesbian vs. other opposite-sex intimate partner relationships
Surveys conducted by the U.S. Department of Justice confirm that homosexual and lesbian relationships had a far greater incidence of domestic partner violence than opposite-sex relationships including cohabitation or marriage.
· The National Violence against Women Survey, sponsored by the National Institute of Justice, found that "same-sex cohabitants reported significantly more intimate partner violence than did opposite-sex cohabitants. Thirty-nine percent of the same-sex cohabitants reported being raped, physically assaulted, and/or stalked by a marital/cohabitating partner at some time in their lifetimes, compared to 21.7 percent of the opposite-sex cohabitants. Among men, the comparable figures are 23.1 percent and 7.4 percent."[50]
50. "Extent, Nature, and Consequences of Intimate Partner Violence," U.S. Department of Justice: Office of Justice Programs (July, 2000): 30.
Family Research Council? That's where you get your information about homosexuality?
You don't think they'd cherry pick "studies" that were convient to their agenda, do you?
Wow. Game. Set. Match. The fact that you would even content from the primary anti-gay group in the country shows your bias against gays.
I think in the future, I'll get all my information about Christianity and the Christian Right from the Southern Poverty Law Center.
I'm offended and done with this.
Upward mobility is good. You can try to reframe it any way you'd like, but it's a good thing. Even for straight people.
It is encouraging to see that Connecticut's relative upward mobility was even higher than absolute mobility. Relative downward mobility was about equal to the national average. What this appears to indicate, based on the video they used to explain their category definitions, says that more people are improving their position in life in Connecticut than the nation as a whole. The fact that the downward is lower indicates that fewer are falling back.
It's good news. I'll take it. There hasn't been a lot of good economic news lately.
This is a scary statement. So we don't pay attention to the science-- We listen to the mob?
Studies that are well documented and that follow the scientific method are certainly more valuable and correct than "common knowledge." It is studies that move us beyond myth and in to the realm of reality.
Poor phrasing on my part. What I meant is that so the people of Connecticut are supossed to feel uplifted by the news that our "mobility potential" is the greatest in the nation? Give me a break.
I understand the science of conducting valid studies. Therefore, I also know to be weary of any published studies for the very great potential of manipulation, fraud, and inconsistencies.
Once again, class immobility is a national- not state- problem. All this study does is distract us from the real underlying issues constraining mobility.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this study is all smoke and mirrors.
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22.7% white
